Game isn’t balanced around cba though. Does the wagon need to be nerfed? Probably a little… But CBA is not a mode the game is balanced around.
Cba is popular enough by the players that it should be taken into consideration in my opinion.
By the way, you say the game is not balanced around it.
But is their this one thing the game is balanced around only. I think the game is great because it somewhat stays balanced in many different scenarios, modes, setting and skill levels.
The more we focus just on 1v1 standard setting Pro games and ignore the rest, the more we lose the magic of aoe2
IF players struggle with something that utterly disrupts decades of cba play, then that should be seen as critical and needs changes or we risk that these players go exticts because we refused to take their worries into consideration
Okay geojak go ahead and find a way to balance the game so that everything is balanced perfectly for
High elo
Low elo
And cba and other popular fan side game modes
Should be easy right?
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Largely 1v1 200 pop standard settings. With a small side of team games and occasional death match changes.
As a map, cba can tweet the numbers of those UU in mod. I dont think cba stats need to share with RM stats, as they are insanely different.
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If we can’t agree on this point, we will likely never agree on anything.
Who said its easily? It’s a difficult task that must be tried nonetheless.
Also their is no perfect balance, only a sea of compromises
We agree it may need a nerf. But balancing around cba and other such game modes? Question for you. How does cba handle war elephants?
Furthermore I will never agree with you on multiple pop units. There are other games for that type of stuff
Aoe2 isn’t it.
It’s not possible. Nothing else to say.
cba needs to find it’s own balance. And I actually doubt bohemians are OP there. I think there are way better civs.
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Must be tried? No not really. There is no reason to balance the game around fan mods. Did Dota require warcraft to make valance changes? Nope.
Does that mean you hate the malay UU?and the age1 logistics tech?
To be honest, I played cba once, hatex it, never tried again. But I see it hosted allll the, time. I guess war elefants suck because meele in a micro focused map
I hate it’s design through and through. Limiting it too half pop means it’s limited in how strong it can be. Which means it’s not going to be a good unit on an individual basis.
Think about how little health and attack it has. It’s not going to do much damage and it’s going to die easily
how did a Bohemians thread end up on CBA? 11
Because people like to go in tangents if they can’t make a straight point. (Mathematikal joke)
Does somebody have a link to the post where a dev stated bohemains winrste is below 50%? Thx
Here you go.
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As many pros say - bohemians are very strong, but very difficult to play (Hera). True, some changes might be possible (even though i think they are fine), but instead of only “nerfs”, they should also get some buffs.
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Hussite wagons - they suck. Yes, they do unless you don’t know how to play one bit. Every single pro game where a pro went mainly wagons ended up in defeat (please, provide coutner example). They are expensive and do no damage - cavalry and siege counters them easily. They only soak up fire and with a bit of flanking, cavalry and siege can easily engage them while the remainder of the army picks off skirms/arbs/cannons behind.
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Cheaper buildings and free mining camp upgrades - Bohemians are very susceptible to die early. Sure, the better spears make a small difference, but not so much if someone is actually microing the scouts. Cheaper buildings don’t really cut it early (e.g. 4 monastery monks) and mining camp upgrades are really strong only in castle age (maybe a reason why hussite wagons are so easy to mass). Therefore, if those are to be touched:
- Blacksmith, uni and monastery cost 50% less (instead of -100 wood)
- Bohemians only get the the gold mining and stone mining upgrades free (feudal age upgrades)
- BUT in return, bohemians get thumb ring OR/AND bloodlines
early chemistry is nice, but is still expensive and long to research. cannons are easy to be countered and with aforementioned changes, they won’t need any nerf (otherwise i agree that their HP could be reduced in castle age)
- trash monks
they are very difficult to get and except for pikes and houfnice are the only real powerhouse behind bohemians (no, wagons are not, they suck except for arrow sucking) since they lack good cavalry, siege ram and even FU arbs.
on the other hand, if they are indeed nerfed (e.g. they now cost 150 food instead of 100), bohemians should ALSO get something in return - e.g. crop rotation, hussar, last cavalry armor or any combination etc.
I guess an example of frustrating to deal with is Incas tower rush, which was obviously nerfed later. Even that Incas still remains competitive.
I felt like nerfs to Bohemians should be done cautiously. This civ looks like the kind that there are many ways to nerf it to become garbage.
I think the thing I’d nerf is removing theocracy. Trash monk is only super strong before gold runs out, paradoxically. Gosh who wants to convert trash units when the gold runs out. For buildings, Bohemian siege is prob more efficient. The one thing I’m not as comfortable with is trash monk converting siege (hence reduce efficiency by removing theocracy. It also fits the protestant vibe of Bohemian reforms).
How about we call it re-balance rather than nerf. Might be a less divisive word choice…
It’s funny, because before DLC came out, I anticipate Poles to be more OP. But then when the civs are revealed, the Bohemians looked more OP. Now in practice, I think Poles are still more borderline OP. 
should have edited the previous comment rather than making a new one completely unrelated to any response;)