That is one way of looking at it.But for some reason Zimbabwe is the fan favourite even passing Nubians.
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The sample on this forumās polls is far too small to be certain it is the fan favorite.
Thanks, Iāll look it up
It was my intention to have it as part of the interactions score. Personally, I think the Songhai have the biggest campaign potential as they rapidly conquered the previosly Malian territory in the late 15th century and extended to the Hausa and Kanem territories as well: Songhai Empire - Wikipedia
Somalis are also a top pick as they nearly conquered all of Ethiopia and the war invloved multiple other factions as well: EthiopianāAdal War - Wikipedia
For Nubia I can only see a scenario about them repelling the Arabs in the early middle ages, but not much else?
I couldnāt find much info about the Kanem empireās expansion and whether they had any military involvement with the north of Africa, but it is certainly a possibility
Benin/Congo/Swahili/Zimbabawe: I think we lack good historical records for a proper campaign, apart from their interactions with Portuguese expeditions: European exploration of Africa - Wikipedia
Ghana and Hausa: I think Ghana is too similar to Mali, and the Hausa states never formed an empire but a loose confederation, but might be wrong
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Youāre definitely right. It would definitely bump up the rating of most West African civs, but not much else change?
My thoughts exactly. I would only have Somalis into consideration as well, but otherwise Nubians, Kongo, a West African civ and Somalis are definitely my top 4 picks
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Sunni Ali & Askia The Great Campaign would be perfect for Songhai.
- Siege Of Timbuktu (1468)
- Siege Of DjennƩ (1475)
- Defeating Mali, Dogon, Tuareg and Fulani (1484-88)
- Askiaās rebellion (1493)
- Jihad against Mossi and Borgu (1498-1506)
- Conquest of Hausaland and defeating the Bornu Empire (1512-15)
- The once Malian city Timbuktu was occupied by the Tuaregs (Berbers). Sunni Aliās army drove them out and killed many of Timbuktuās inhabitants and repelled the nearby Mossi forces
- DjennƩ was the biggest and most important city in West Africa. It was well fortified and took Sunni 7 years to capture it from the Malians
- Conquering most part of the Mali Empire, defeating Dogons, Tuaregs and Fulanis
- After Sunni Ali had died Askia rebelled against Sunni Baru, son of Sunni Ali. He defeated him by Gao and became the 3rd king of the Songhai Empire
- Askia conquered the Mossi Empire (Burkina Faso), but after that failed against the Borgu
- The Bornu Empire attacked the Eastern cities of the Songhai Empire, Askia liberated them and conquered Hausaland (powerful kingdoms)
There could be a 7th scenario about Askiaās conquest in West Africa against Senegalese, Western Mali and Fulani, but the other scenarios are more important. The 5th scenario could bring us new mechanics: You have to conquer the Mossi Empire to get access to the Southern part of the map to conquer the Borgu Kingdom, but due to the tropical terrain and tsetse flies (horse killing flies) the Borgu Kingdom would quickly overwhelm you and your task would be to hold X minutes and then escape (Campaign makers can do it better). Cavalry units would lose half of their armor, attack and HP due to the tsetse flies and you would be forced to use Champions
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I remember Sandy Peterson talking about an expansion project the original team had for Africa. If Iām not mistaken, the civs he listed were Ethiopians and Malians (which we already have) as well as Ghana and Zimbabwe, so those two civs have been considered as a valid addition to the game for a very long time.
Another thing I think we need to take into account is which civs are wrongfully represented in campaigns, with Malians or Ethiopians (and less often Saracens) as stand-ins.
Ghana/Soninke sort of appear in the whole Sundiata campaign, since his main ennemy Soumaoro KantĆ© of the Sosso Empire was actually a Soninke ruler, though the Susu people he ruled over are apparently yet another different Mande people. There are other representants of less relevant and often undefined people in this campaign (Iām not sure who the āNigerā faction in the āSting of the Scorpionā is meant to represent, for instanceā¦).
Nubians appear several time in the Yodit campaign, especially in āthe Right Partnerā and āa Fallen Crownā in which you interact with the kingdoms of Alodia and Nobatia.
Swahilis are present in Francisco de Almeidaās āRuins of Empiresā scenario, with 4 factions being named after this people or its main city. There are also two Ethiopian āBantuā factions, which could easily become Swahili, Kongolese or Shona (maybe one Kongolese and one Shona if we get all three peoples).
So I think any dlc about Africa should include at least one of those three civs (Ghana/Soninke, Nubians and Swahilis) until all three of them are in game. Ideally (and assuming the 48 civs cap can be overcome/isnāt really a thing) I think we should get at least 3 dlc. One for East Africa with Nubians and Somalis (and maybe Kanembus), one for Central/South Africa with Swahilis, Kongolese and Shonas/Zimbabwe and one for Western Africa with at the very least Ghana/Soninke and Songhai, though this region has way too many interesting civs to be entirely covered with only one dlc even if we went back to 4/5 civs per dlc. Nigeria alone has the Yorubas, Hausa, Edo and Igbos.
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Yeah, my mistake. I had their UU in mind when including them. But as for the Malians, Iām not sure. In Timbuktu alone there are more than 700,000 manuscripts not yet cataloged and probably without English translation.
As for the images for the wonder, this one is great. And we can find other images if needed (I suggest reading Sundiata1ās post about the possible discovery of the capital of Kanem Bornu, just out of curiosity).
Yes, it could be Mutota too. I only suggested Gatsi Rusere because I know there is enough material for a campaign.
I intend to bring a summary of each civ with images and info about possible campaigns, but it will take a while. So I ask for the patience of everyone interested. In the meantime, could you (or whoever else wants to) come up with a concept with these summaries of Kongo and Shona? Soon, Iāll bring the one for Kanem that Iām currently reading (then Iāll go to Nubians and Somalis).
Kongo
- Majority of the army is light infantry + a core of elite heavy infantry: Yandi Kitaninu (Shield Bearers)
- In Ndongo, they had a archer elite called Kimbare
- Steel swords lauded as being better than those of Europeans
- Made up for lack of good bows with a lot of poison arrows
- Adopted early gunpowder weapons
- Gunpowder > Yandi Kitaninu > Spearman line and Archers
- Foot scouts called Mpombo, able to keep up with horses
- Traps besides palisades and walls
- Used mercenaries called Imbangala Warriors who practiced sanguamento (which allowed them to dodge arrows) and whose strategy was literally a castle drop (can be a regional unit)
- No supplies
- No ships, just war canoes (with 100 archers and skirmishers each)
- Economy: lots of food and wood, little gold (only through Market) and stone
- Religion: few (Christian) monks, but with a lot of range
Shona
- No fixed army, the warriors being farmers who came from all over the kingdom like Incas
- Goromondo can be their UU
- Marimbirimbi foot scouts (like Mpombo)
- They used bows and arrows, javelins, clubs, shields, and battle axes.
- Huge city walls made of stone (without mortar) called Zimbabwe
- No supplies
- Cow Horn Formation
- They made biological traps (especially effective against knights)
- No info about ships, probably the same as Kongo.
- They were great elephants hunters
- Their kings practiced the corvee (maybe a bonus like āreceive x res when advancing to next ageā?)
- Economy: lots of food, gold and stone, little wood
- Religion: spirit mediums had authority over the kings
Tell me what do you all think
Edit: Forgot the link
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As I said, no need to worry. The only ones that maybe (maybe) canāt have a campaign are Swahilis. Even for the Shona I found an interesting episode that we could use.
Kilwa captured Sofala from the South and seized control over Comoros, Zanzibar, Pemba, Malindi, Mombasa, colonized parts of North Madagascar. Capturing Sofala would be the first scenario, capturing Swahili cities and Madagascar would be the second.
This should be the third:
4th:
5th:
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That could indeed work. Thought only ever fighting other Swahilis and Portuguese could get a bit boring. The Jean of Arc campaign pulled it off, so maybe thereās hope for this one as well?
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Sofala was under the Somalis so in the first scenario they should appear. Great Zimbabwe traded with Sofala so they should also appear in the first scenario.
Malagasy should be covered by the Malay in the second scenario
al-Hassan had an army of Swahili and Bantu people, the latter should be covered by the Shonas for more diversity
Portuguese presented in Kilwa as a neutral entity
Chinese, Saracen and Gujarati Merchants could also appear.
Something like this should work:
Scenario1:
Capturing Sofala as the first task. Then establish trade with Zimbabwe and overseas but Bantu Raiders and Arab Pirates would attack your trade routes so you would need to guard them with a big army (Basically earn 1000 gold from each Zimbabwe and overseas, or something similar)
Scenario2:
Destroying the Castles and killing the military units of Zanzibar, Pemba, Mombasa, Comoros and Malindi. Make a colony in Madagascar similar to Vinlandsaga
Scenario3:
A big army would attack your city and you have to defend. We already have similar scenarios. You would earn resources from trading with overseas. Gujarati, Chinese, Portuguese and Saracen Merchants would visit your city to make an offer to you.
Scenario4:
We have similar scenarios. Gather allies and escape.
Scenario5:
You start by controlling a small % of the city and you have to take control all of it.
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Iām surprised how little interest are Somalis getting, when at my eyes theyāre by far one of the biggest player missing from Ćfrica and full of potential of beign designed as an AoE2 civ.
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They have plenty of recorded history and archelogical sources of information.
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They developed advanced architectural methods and stylish designs. Examples:
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They were active traders of the indian sea trade network, and a maritime regional power, thus could be given intresting naval bonuses to expand the water meta.
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The Adal-Ethiopian wars could be source of great campaign material, involving Ethiopians, Portuguese, Turks and even some Saracen ānpcsā thrown in there for flavour.
I was actually expecting them to be higher than Zimbabweans.
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I have shared a Somali design, yeah I think they are one of the must have civs.
However, I feel like civs like Zimbabwe just seems more unique to most people here
Also for some weird reason the Zimbabweans are fairly widely known as a medieval civ
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Itās weird, indeed. The only thing we know about them are the ruins of great zimbabwe and some of their trading activities yet they got incredible famous in the recent years within the AoE2 community.
I think itās the compelling idea of an organized state rising in a region often considered ābackwardsā and āa bunch of tribesā, coming to dominate the region, and then dissapear with no more trace than the ruins of their seat of power.
Honestly, I wouldnāt even consider them a priority for Africa. Not because theyāre not worth it, but rather because we donāt know anything about them to build a civ with.
About the axe
All I could find about shona axes by a quick search in google has no references to the medieval period. Andā¦ they seem to be ceremonial only.
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This is the main reason if you have buildings that lasted the test of time more people would know about them.
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We know quite a bit about Mutapa (which I would include under Zimbabwe) amd we know what economic activities they had in Zimbabwe
Its not great tbh, but its something
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Looks underpowered. Their only viable strategy in the early game is trash + towers and the Byzantine bonus is much better in that regard.
They would be strong on Arena with the Castle Age discount, but on Arabia, they are weak.