A good civ is one that allows you to put into good use their strong points in order to build a viable and somewhat army in a timely manner while at the same time have no major weaknesses that cannot be offset by their strengths.
I personally have a preference for civs whose bonuses complement their unique units. For example, the Koreans get free upgrades that make teching into War Wagons easier.
Free Sheep is free 100F (2 free vils! almost the same as Liths, and their bonus smoetimes is seen as broken) + additional scouting bonus. Also makes them less wulnerable to laiming.
âA bitâ of worker time is around 13w, mean another 1/2 the house. Also, if we build standard 2 houses from the start, you have essentialy 3d house for free, and you are on 25 Pop. Pretty good stuff.
Not true. Kamayuk sluather both Champions and Cav. They do better vs Cav than Halbs, due to larger surviviblity and much faster attack. They train pretty fast, are cheaper and faster to upgrade than both Champs and Halbs, and Incas have cheaper Castles. Slinger is the best anti-infantry unit in the game.
Should be 5, I think 
And Incas have both FU Barracks and FU Range, Slingers against better Infantry, above avarage Skirms (worse than Mayan and Aztec, yes, but still very good) Eagles better against Archers, and wild card Kamayuk. They even have better defences with cheaper towers and castles. One issue Incas are very gold-intensive, but this is issue with every American Civ. They dont have also blind spot in their Gameplan like Mayans or Aztecs.
Inca Trush still would be possible, because they still will have cheaper Towers, and faster Feudal with free Llama and less Houses. Besides, Devs are constanly nerfing Tower-rushes.
Incas is civ with great potential,
But overshadowed by their âOnly-Noboru-Rushâ Identity. Now they cannot do this, Inca players will need to adapt and they find out Incas are indeed good Civ without all-in Vill rush. Like Persians are good also without Duching.
Also, I see and hear everybody âIncas the weakest American Civâ but throu like 2 years their winrate is CONSTANTLY higher than Aztecs on all Elos, and higher than Mayans on all Elo except the highest. They always are above 10, alongside with Franks, Huns or Berbers.
I think better would be extend wood bonus to Siege. Beside Onager, their Siege isnt great, and cheaper rams (even Capped Rams) could be very helpfull.
Cool, theyâll now be overshadowed by no one picking them, because other mezo civs are just plain better. It was a risky, all in, but workable strat to trush in 1v1, and also had a lot of utility and changed gameplay in team games as well. Itâs just going to make the game have one less strategic variety than before.
I am happy that sicilians got buffed tbh. They were already a very op civ in my opinion but now they are pushed more towards going donjon rush (not that i like this idea a lot). I am personnaly a cav mostly player who goes all in with cav and i like sicilians bc you can engage against archer and pike numbers very easy without fearing an bad ending (reduced bonus damaged helps out more than you can ever imagine). The conversion resistence is also good against monks thou it comes in a bit late and i dont think it can be used as a game changer.
You can say that they can take the advantage even faster. Turks especially have free Chemistry. Their gunpowder units have more HP and are created faster. This is surely a huge buff for Turks.
I like this one. Honestly, even Mangonels and Onagers. They have special Onagers in late game only, where wood discount doesnât matter much.
Depends on numbers. 12 v 12 champions win without micro on open field
12 kamayuks v 10 champs (equal ressources) champions win, even when Kamayuks are bunched up in a corner.
20v20 Kamayuks win on open field depending on formation. If simply patrolled they lose.
I guess anything above that number is in strong favor of the Kamayuk. Still, they are more expensive.
They train faster because they are from the castle yes.
Kamayuk cost 900f 500g for elite upgrade and 600f 600g for fabric shields. Thats pretty much on the same scale as the upgrades to champion. They arent really cheaper.
Sure, slingers are a good anti infantery unit. The problem is, you almost never face infantery if you dont play vs other meso civs.
eehm yes, the forum auto numerated the list I guess. Nothing that you mention in your list sounds to me like they would have a better late game than mayans.
Yep, and Italians have cheaper Cannon Galeons, they dont need to pay for upgrade now. With their advantage on water they now can start demolish enemy islands right after Chemistry.
Trush is still viable more or less - Incas still have cheaper Towers. And TCs, and Castles, and Walls. But Inca Vills was equal to Militia and with Pierce Armor better than even MaA. Archer with Fleching needs 20 (!) shots to kill Inca Vill, and Watch Tower - 14 shots. Even against Scout Cav in Feudal they would do much better than normal. Not even mention bonus against buildings what Vills have and fact enemy literally cannot defend with his own vills and have to make military, because even Towers and Walls will fall to Inca Vills. And Inca would not even make military at all.
Stacked Kamayuks wins 15 vs 15 Champs.
Right, forgot about Fabric Shields. Still, they are much faster to upgrade.
Late game Goths, Slavs, Celts, Japanese, MalayâŠ
Everything Mayans have late game is Eagles, Halbs and Archers. And this die hard to Cham-Skirm. They also die to everything what can neutralize their Archers (like Goths, Malians, strong Siege Civs like Celts, Slavs or Khmer) On the other hand, Incas dont have this problem.
OH GOD the Malay changes are massive, Iâm 100% expecting a nerf next month to be honest (40% cheaper eles, wtfâŠ)
Burgundians will get a nerf for sure, that can be potentially broken on team games (AT least nerf the stable techs to 33% cheaper).
Thanks God Liths are untouched.
Incas nerf deserved!!
Tbh i do think about learning to play them, malay pocket in closed maps TG seems sick now. You can mass xbow/arb while going up to a fast imp for an initial push and switch into mass elephants.
Do you remember the Karambit nerfs pre DE because were way too strong??
Karambits look now a bit OP.
It is just +1 attack.
Half of these changes seem naive. I think the devs just looked at winrates and tried to figure out something to nerf, without thinking if itâs balanced or not.
Why nerf Frank paladins, but not Lithuanian ones ? If TGs are the problem, it looks like Lith are now far better, and Lith are actually more picked at pro levelâŠ
Why kill Inca tower rush completely, obviously listening to the people who hate getting tower rushed, but while at the same time introducing a new civ with a unique Tower rush building ?
This cycle of nerfs/buffs based on winrates will not end well. So far it looks like we are mostly removing strategies (RIP tower rush since DE) and making civs more and more similar, not making the game more balanced. Frank/Incas winrate is 53% right now thatâs not unbalanced.
franks imo are superior (mainly for chivalry)
well tbh I also dislike that inca nerf. I agree that they needed a nerf but this one completely removes this strategy from the game
Id rather call it +2, as karambits are trained in pairs. So its a nice buff. Still, i think the ele buff is more signficant.
Frankish paladins are easily the most spammed in the game with too many powerspikes and eco advantage, while Lithuanians need to work manually to get it.
Also from Nicov:
Another nerf I jusr found: Franks need a mill to unlock their free upgrades.
You know you need a mill to build farms? 11
considering you need a mill to throw down farms this isnât much a nerf.
Franks have a better knight rush then Lithuanians and can get to paladin faster and spam out knights faster?
Oh yeah, thanks. I have been playing Khmer too much these days, lol.
