If they have military buildings with more pop (slavs) why doks can’t?
They would have a pretty weak dark and feudal age, I onestly don’t see any reasons on introducing such a weak civ…
Pretty meh onestly… and most of venetian marines were either xbows or HC.
+10% is too much?
Yeah but in castle age, in feudal they would suck… as for the +1 is changeable.
Theres a limited ammount of resources each unit or building can hold. Trading sites cannot support extra population.
I think you are understimating them a bunch. They get an slightly weaker version of the Lithuanian bonus and an stronger early castle age.
Either way if you want to make it 5% faster in feudal and castle age seems fine too
Yes. Look at Persians who needed to be nerfed because of it
Its not that weak. Its slightly weakern than Japanese
Eh I dont think its meh honestly. Its really solid when compared to other infantry bonuses. Basically Japanese champs that are better against ranged
Yeah but TCs can do both, storing all kind of resources and also giving pop.
Still, the bonus might be “docks build twice as fast and gives 10 pop”. That way, if it’s uncodeable we still have a backup.
Yeah but consider that lithuanians have a more flexible tech tree. Until imp, all options are available (cav, xbow, monks). Venetians have good archers, but terrible cav.
It can be through squires too, but in my opinion the tech should be moved to feudal age in order to be an effective bonus.
Persians were mainly broken because of 5% faster TC in dark age more than the dock 5%. That’s because it allowed them to squeeze in a vill more and still hit feudal faster.
But again, japs have a better tech tree…
They are more compatible to ethiopians in my opinion.
HP aren’t that important as PA when facing ranged units. I would prefer to give them generic FU champs, and a UT that affects ranged units.
Although, if you throw in there halbs too, and eventually condos (if you have an allied Italian player) then it might be good.
Like “barracks units have +40HP” then it seems good.
Well, not so much if you consider the latest LS buff…
So, for now the civ appears as it follows:
Bonuses:
TB:
UTs:
or:
Mmm it still seems to miss something though… maybe I could recycle the infantry armor bonus for free… it would be historically accurate, since Venice effectively payed for all their soldiers and sailors weaponry and especially armors, assuring so that they were always armored.
Dont really like the idea of one unit getting replaced with another normal unit you can train.If it was a new unit it could be better.
Im talking about a diferent thing
In terms of archers however, Venetisns do thst opening better imo.
Also my version is still a little bit stronger than yours tbh.
Faster archers > bloodlines and better infantry
Nope. Its true that they were S-tier on arabia but the main reason they were broken is their performance on hybrid maps with the extra res at dark age and faster docks. Rn this civ is even better than old persians at thst.
Also try to not add any overlaps since this is way too similar. I am using faster creatibg warships for other civ but its only warships, not fishing ship, transport ships or trade cogs and Im balancing that with no shipwright (they have a wood bonus outside that) and Im not giving them a UT for faster trained ships either.
120 hp condos and 100 hp halbs LOL. At best remove halb and give them 95 hp pikemen.
Also 110 hp champions is a yikes from me. 100 hp THS are ridiculous enough
This civ would be weaker than mine on water and weaker on land from castle age until you get the ridiculous UT.
You are greatly overstimatibg the strength of the buff
Its still really really strong on a unit thwts waaaayyy better in melee compared to Champskarls
Yeah I know. I keep it a little bit more weaker in order to have more room to maneuver, and to avoid an OP civ. There is always time buff it.
Ok, maybe I didn’t understand it. Still, I leave it there, if it’s not doable it’ll simply be ignored.
Yeah, but BL is an important tech. Also, the venetians wouldn’t just lack BL, but the hussar and cavalier upgrades too, and husbandry.
Yeah, but the dock alone doesn’t seem OP… anyway, don’t worry, I removed the faster dock, the bonus stays only in the form of the UT, which was slightly buffed.
The UT for faster working docks is unique. No civs have such UT, and it should stay for historical accuracy. At least some reference to the arsenal is needed in my opinion.
I meant it for more HP, I didn’t do the math. It might be that the tech gives just 30HP, or that it have an incredible high cost.
Then let’s give them just 30HP more. I mean, it wasn’t my idea so I didn’t thought of it all the way…
But I’ll do the math, and see what it’ll come out…
Again, both the archer speed and wood bonus are purposely held back for now.
As for water, I still don’t know… maybe an early and cheaper careening could do the trick…
I know, the bonus is mainly for the feudal age and drush, but it also help in the other ages too. Overall, it’s not OP, and it help, and it’s historically accurate, so it’ll probably stay for now.
Like:
Bonuses:
TB:
UTs:
Arsenal - Docks are SW works 50% faster.
300f 300g
Fanti de Mar - Barracks units (champs and halbs) get +30HP.
800f 400g
I mean, vikings have champs with 84HP, so champs with 90HP seems fine. As for halbs, 90HP are a lot, so it needs a bit more math to figure it out if it’s OP…
I’ll update the design as soon as I do the math…
Champions have 70 hp though. Either way, 100 hp champions are crazy good but fine.
90 hp halbs are prob OP
Yeah right… sorry…
God the new job is killing every single neuron that I have left…
Yeah, I don’t know maybe then just +20HP? 80HP halbs may be fine… or remove the pike upgrade, and leave it at 30, maybe even 40 HP at that point…
Ok, just to leave no idea hanging there without an answer, I thought about the potential new imp UT for the venetians, and my conclusion are:
+30 HP for all barracks unit, so basically:
100HP champs are strong, but onestly not more broken than malay, bulgarians or malians ones.
90HP halbs are strong, but overall it’s just 2 hits more from a cavalier, and the tech would cost as much as logistica, so if you are going trash spending 800 gold on an upgrade isn’t easy.
110HP condo would be strong but super situational.
Anyway, as I had some early bonuses kept on the weaker side for precaution, this UT too would be subjected to potential change, and if necessary it can be nerfed to just +20HP, with its cost accordingly adjusted.
So, I’ll make this post to sum up things and to talk a little bit about the future.
So, with the release of DotD, we got probably the last civs for the moment. We may get a new one, just to get to 40 civs, but that’s unlikely to be the venetians.
Still, we may get the venetians in the form of a mod, and if that is the case, this topic is here to help.
The latest version of the civ isn’t perfect, but it’s not bad either, and if someone has patience, he can scroll the the topic and find a ton of ideas and potential bonuses. The topic is also full of informations about the history of the civs, and info about potential campaigns, with a dedicated civ, or with simply the byzantines/Italians.
Still, this topic will stay open for anyone that has something to add in regarding the topic, he can feel free to post here (civ design, history, campaigns…). I won’t follow this topic as before, but I’ll still answer if someone needs something, or post something interesting.
As for the future, since it’s unlikely that we get the venetians for aoe2, it’s not unlikely that we get the Republic of Venice for AoE4.
Keep an eye in the AoE4 section of the forum for my topic, since I may create a new topic there regarding a civ design for the venetians. It’ll take time, since I need to familiarize with the game, and I also have a new book regarding Venice history that I’ll use as a source, so I’ll probably read that first.
Thanks to everyone who contributed here and we will see around, here or in a game.
For all those interested in both the history of Venice and age of empires, and to those that have followed me here on this topic, I’m proud to announce that I made a fan design of the venetians for aoe4 too.
All of you are welcome there, and like always all feedback are well received.
I’m glad you updated the civ for aoe4. I just hope relic doesn’t mash it up into “italians”.
I hope not…
But to be fair, the 8 civs released until now seems to be coherent historical states that existed, so I don’t that they’ll put something like the Italians… It’s more likely that they don’t put an Italian state at all than a an umbrella civ.
Tbh we already have Chinese
Italians civi with monuments from different city states unlocking different unit types would be an option.
But there wouldn’t be an “Italian” civ… anyway this isn’t the place to talk about it since it’s aoe4…
The Chinese civ groups a mongol and three Chinese dinasties. Putting the “Kingdom” of Italy under the same civ isnt much diferent
