I get it, and I’m not knowledgeable enough on Chinese history to argue against it, but dynasties aren’t states, I mean at least there is a sense of continuing through history. Italians states exited at the same time instead, and you would need a base Italian state that somehow “conquer” another one on each age up, which never exited.
Anyway, again this is an aoe2 section of the forum, so maybe it’s better to go into the aoe4 section to discuss such arguments.
That would be more appropiate for greatswords (Claymores, Zweihänders), but even then they’re not comparable to the lenght and range of most spears. On the other hand, the schiavona is still a one-handed sword and not something you would see a group of infantry using bunched together dealing thrusts atop each others’ shoulders
Well, since the new civs that will be released have “stolen” some of the bonuses of the venetians (which actually make me happy, since it means that weren’t bad ideas) I made another another design for the venetians with old and new bonuses. As always, this isn’t necessarily a request for the civ in the game, but who knows, it may help other civ that will be added in the future, or help a modder to get the venetians in the game.
So here it is the last version of the venetians:
Their TC start with a shore fish. *
The Trade Workshop is available (see the effect below).
Infantry armor tech are free upon hitting the respective age (no blacksmith required)
Archery range units are affected by squires.
Galley line units are 20% faster.
Guilds technology is available in feudal age with an 80% discount.
Arsenal: docks works 33% faster and lumberjacks base carry capacity is doubled.
Professional armies: all infantry units get +30 HP
Condottiero: now a regional UU. The unit now cost more gold than food but have now 1/1 base armor.
Stradiot: a mercenary units that cost only gold and doesn’t need any upgrades. It have a small bonus damage against knights.
Armed Galley: unique upgrade that replace the galleon. It have less HP and PA, but gain a 3 shot attack, similar to an organ gun. ***
Galeass: unique upgrade for that replace the elite cannon galleon. It greatly increases the HP and armor of the ship.
Trade Workshop: it combines a lumber camp and market. It cost 50 wood, and it allows for trade in the dark age. Trees nearby it contains 50% more wood.
*NOTABLE TECH TREES DETAILS:
They lack almost all stable techs. They have only knights and light cav, with the 3 armors. They also lack the cavalry archer line.
Barracks and ranges are FU, with the exception of the CA and partian tactics. Siege workshops FU except for SO.
Blacksmith and uni FU.
Docks lack the demolition ship line.
Have 2HS, lack gold/stone shaft mining and crop rotation.
All other generic/not included units or techs are present.
To compensate it, vills gather from sheep slower. The shore fish is placed in the lower angle tile of the open area of the TC.
** Italians would get a new TB, maybe a mounted crossbowmen shared UU or upgrade for the CA, just a random idea.
*** Both upgrades are way more than the standard ones.
Tell me what do you think of it. Every feedback is welcome.
I’m not keen on this. I mean, its new, and different, but really it will make boar luring harder with a pond in the center of the TC, and if it ever gets destroyed by something like a Hoang Rush it just makes life harder by forcing you to readjust your farming eco. Not to mention, the slower sheep gathering would seriously impact your early eco.
This could be good, if you use the Caravanserai mechanic to allow for it, but honestly it only affects a small percentage of the trees and forces you to invest more in refreshes. That’s great when paired with the affect, but that assumes the opponent won’t go around and target them first to remove you of their bonus and waste resources.
Besides that, is it even possible to change in-game resource values like that mid-game? I’m genuinely curious if that’s ever been a thing either in official scenarios or mods.
Personally, to keep in line with other techs of this nature, I’d rather the blacksmith be required. That way it keeps a semblance of gameplay symmetry to it.
Unless I’m dumb and overlooked an already-present example of this in-game 11. I don’t know every civ so intimately.
This is an interesting concept… But. I’d rather it not be so. It being the Italians’ TB is actually pretty fine, the only thing I’d change about the Condo concept itself is that a portion of its gold cost go towards the Italians player upon a teammate’s purchase.
Interesting design for a UU, almost the same vein as the Condo in that regard, but towards knights not gunpowder. I don’t see anything inherently wrong with it as is besides being very costly in gold. Which, I suppose, would be the point in concept 11. Even so, I’d offset the gold cost a bit with a token amount of food imo.
Interesting tweaks for naval play, much more flavor compared to Italians imo. I actually think these concepts are great personally, but together it would be hard to stop the snowball. Maybe go for one or the other?
Personally I dont see anything wrong with any of this for this concept, but
here I do. I honestly don’t see any reason for archers in this civ to keep the last armor upgrade with their speed bonus for squires. It would be a bit op to have both speedy and tanky archers imo.
Also, since I’ve heard people complain about this repeatedly, apparently a full University is supposed to be a Koreans-only thing (I don’t see why, their explanation is a bit suspect to me. One enlightened king influencing an entire civ’s tech tree and discounting all the rest? Eh.). I guess though, in order to fall in line with this, I’d remove fortified wall as Venezia the city was an island and relied upon the navy as its “wooden wall” in the same vein as England. Architecture stone walls should be enough to defend with.
I don’t think that isn’t something resolvable. If the TC is destroyed, a tile of terrain can be reset by a trigger.
As for being walkable, it’s enaugh to use the shallow terrain.
For sheep instead, the main problem is that shore fish is the fastest resources of food. It means that you got 200 food way faster, and with 3/4 vills you can sustain vill production, compared to the 6 on sheep. It doesn’t have to 50% less, but since you can delay gathering from them, you need to balance it.
The main advantage of this anyway is that you can get to wood or berries 2 vills earlier, and potentially get to dock sooner on water maps.
It actually works more like the mayan bonus, the vill gather just 5 wood from the tree (in the same amount of time) but drop 10 in the building. Or like the folwark, if a building can remove resources, why it shouldn’t add them.
In the second case, my idea was to give them an area of effect of at least 5 tiles from the border of the building, which is 2x2, which makes for a 7x7 square.
Magyars bonus work without needing a blacksmith.
The italian bonus can still be condos, but venetians get a different version of them.
It was to make a pure gold units, since we don’t have one of them.
It’s actually a very expensive combo. Massed armed galley are strong, but fragile, they need galeasses in front. Usually, it’s the other way around, massed galleons in front of some cannon galleons, so it takes some skills to use. Also, the 2 UT are really expensive, really, if your opponent let you get there, you deserve the win.
You don’t have cavalry or decent light cav. In the late game your composition rely on halbs and skirms. And even before gold runs out, you don’t have a cheap meatshield like hussars to protect your archers, so I believe that the last armor upgrades is fine.
This doesn’t make sense to me, it’s like saying that a FU barracks should be a goth unique aspects. This meme just originated from an ornulu video and people took it too seriously.
While their city didn’t need them, the venetians actually built a lot of forts and fortified cities, they were experts on them since the the early middle ages. Their inland settlement of Mestre had a fort, they built another on the estuary of the Po to monopolize the local trade, and they built a ton of overseas forts, like the city of Candia, Famagusta, Cefalonia, and so on.
One thing we all over looked was giving the ability to build houses on shallows similar to the Khmer farms.its historical and adds an interesting gameplay mechanic where you can wall off shallows with houses.
It could a little nod to their history, but practically it would be a too little too niche bonus. Still I don’t see why not…
I also did though of a bonus that allowed you to build certain buildings on the shore similarly to a dock, and could train both land and water units, like a TC that when built on the shore could train both vills and fishing ships, or markets that could train both trade carts and cogs, siege workshops that could train cannon galleons, and so on… but it was an either useless or broken bonus.
The stradiot is basically a knight (it have the exact same stats of a FU one) which cost just gold, don’t need any upgrades (except the elite one in imp) and have a small bonus damage of +5 against the knight line.
So basically you get your unique knight from your castle and you know that they can always beat a group of enemy knights.
True, you need a castle for it, and the enemy probably have more numbers by that time, but stratdiots are trained faster and you can abuse your early guilds to buy stone.
Then again, the venetians are an infantry civ, their good early eco and free infantry armor makes for some good drush-FC, and in the late game they have really tanky infantry. So even if their cavalry suck, it’s compensated by their good foot soldiers and great eco.
Their archers are good, but not the focus of the civ anymore. They get faster in castle, and are helped by the good early eco, but nothing too crazy anymore.