they have no gunpowder and no heavy camel,
is that enough?
i think im going to make a pop-down more in depth campaign soon
but maybe not, until then ill work on the rajputs
a cavalry civ
Remove all the camels would be a good idea.
1 Like
i kind of like it there
just a castle age option to chase down knights, not a big deal really
so it seems the midgame of the civ is OP
suggestions?
well i changed the bonuses, that might help
villager regen turns into elephant regen,
elephants resisting bonus damamge is given to archers
On hybrid maps, like mediterranean or 4 lakes, or golden swamp, getting free fire ship upgrade is huge, as fire ships already take a minute to create, so while the enemy gets that upgrade you could potentially snowball the fire ship lead. I would change this to free fast fire ship like I said before, as by that time water is (usually) already won.
Or even change this to âfire ships created 5% faster each age 5/10/15â but that might be overpowered as well. But I mean the Tamils were good at water so why not.
1 Like
Awful archers, terrible skirms and CA, no eco bonus, barely useful military bonuses, very limited military options.
That civ would not survive 10 minutes.
6 Likes
So I agree that the stats of the chariot UU seem OP when you see higher range then Arb, and similar attack to champ, along with mobility. But I was thinking about it, the thing that gives arbs power is that they stack, and you also move Champs together in large quantities. Iâd see these chariot units as having pretty large hit boxes, and maybe not the easiest to maneuver in large groups. So that would be their drawback to offset the nice stats. I think it would be a really cool UU and have similar advantages/drawbacks to real chariots.
1 Like
@HavocKraken49 maybe i should remove bracer again to fit with the old theme or winning water early? or should i give them my original idea of one more range, i scrapped that idea since i wasnât sure if the fires was a projectile or animation
@TriRem Suggestions?
i tried to give them an easy lure
@Pulikesi25 and @BoughtRelic9282
i meant it had higher attack than an arb, not range
also
to fit with that âcanât be massedâ theme, we could give the chariot bad pathing
Letâs go through it ste^p by step :
- Lack of eco upgrade
Easy lure is at best a small QoL feature in dark age. It has barely any impact on the game. They will need something much more noticeable.
- Bad military bonuses
- Regenerating elephants is ok I guess, but itâs very mild. It wonât carry the civ in any way.
- Archers taking less damage from skirms is entirely useless given their awful archers. Without crossbow and second archer armor, itâs suicide to even invest into archers and an absolute dead end.
- fire ship upgrades free is pretty strong on its own, but irrelevant for land maps, and comes in too late in water play since they have 0 bonuses before castle age for water.
- Urumi, it only comes in imp, itâs basically a shotel clone. It might be ok balance wise, but itâs bad that in design itâs just shotel warrior with slight modifications.
- Monk UT is completely and utterly useless. Itâs a worse version of Madrasah, which is already in copetition for most irrelevant UT.
- Bad military options :
-
Archery range :
Awful, might be the worst in the game. Archers are never worth using because you canât upgrade them, and even taking less damage from skirms they still take enough and they only deal 1 damage anyway, so even if you make them in feudal they will still die anyway.
Skirms lack even the second armor upgrade, so they struggle a lot in countering ranged units, their sole role. No HC or HCA makes imp ranges completely irrelevant. -
Stable :
Decent in castle age despite no real bonus outside of the mild help on elephants. Falls off in imp with no cavalier and heavy camels, meaning that the two most usable cavalry units in castle age instantly become irrelevant when you hit imp. Like archers in feudal, you canât go heavy on knights nor camels, meaning that cavalry is very awkward starting in castle age already.
FU Hussar is fine, FU battle ele with regeneration is good but expensive. -
Barracks :
Completely generic until imp, nothing that great.
In imp, you get Urumi + imp UT but you donât have the last armor. Meaning that infantry is very vulnerable to ranged units, which is bad because they already have bad anti archer options without decent eskirm/cavalier/BBC.
The UT is marginally useful for 2hswords/Urumi. For 2hswords, Taking -1 to -4 damage against melee compared to champs doesnât make up for the lack of champions, specially since they only have 3 pierce armor and get shredded by anything ranged.
For Urumi, they are said to be low HP so the extra armor wonât make much of a difference since they die fast anyway. Also, lack of last armor would be very problematic on a low HP unit with no base armor.
For halbs itâs only there that the UT can be interesting, having effectively +2 to +5 melee armor seems like a good tradeoff for the increased vulnerability to ranged units. -
Siege :
Average at best. Siege ram is nice, but onagers with no bonus are nothing to ride home about. Lacking heavy scorp and BBC is really bad considering they already have bad ranged options. -
Navy :
Decent enough with the free fire ship upgrades. Lack of galleon hurts but you have shipwright + FFS + Heavy Demo so you can make by. Not having any eco bonus makes water play pretty underwhelming though. -
Monks :
Good monks in castle age. Not having block printing in imp is a death sentence and renders them close to useless in imp. -
Chariot archer :
Now this unit seems interesting. Fast mobile unit that can switch between arbalest attack and champion attack at will, sounds way too strong as it would be basically impossible to properly counter. If facing you eagles/onagers/huskarls, switch to melee and easily win. If facing halbs/camels/paladins, switch to ranged and kite them to oblivion.
But at the same time they would have very low armor with only 1/1 armor in post imp, so they would be very susceptible to ranged units. So it could work out. I would probably reduce the melee attack to something around light cav levels though.
Overall :
No eco bonus makes the civ very slow.
Archery range units are near useless.
Stable lacks flexibility, only elephants have a bonus and even then itâs mild.
Barracks is fine. Urumi and 2hswords seem underwhelming, but halbs sound good enough.
Siege is barely average.
Navy alright but no early game bonus and limited imp tech tree.
Monks are alright but nothing to ride home about.
Chariots are the most interesting thing about the civ.
The civ is too limited in what it can do, and with no ranged options outside of the UU they will die too easily to any pressure in early to midgame, and not having anti range options makes them really bad vs archer civs. Not having a good eco the civ is too slow to compete against most civs in early to midgame, and the imp tech tree is not good enough to make up for it.
2 Likes
It does make sense when you put it this way, a civ should either have a good eco bonus and a decent late game, or require you to play them perfectly early on for an absolute beastly late game.
I think that the fire ship creation speed would be a helpful eco bonus, as the other water ones are already taken.
I might give them Cavalier, so they can at least have a smoother transition from knight â> Elephants. Why not make the urumai similar to a magyar hussar or a mangudai, as an infantry that can absolutely shred siege, and since it is a team unit, teammates can also use this to save a building quickly.
Another option might be to make the urumai a civ specific unit and make their team bonus something like all unclaimed sheep on map are explored (like a black forest bonus but only for sheep and on every map). I still think this would be kinda quirky though.
Also I would let them keep bracer, as a naval civ without bracer is no naval civ.
1 Like
Actually no, the DE civs are the last. No more civs to be added officially.
They donât currently, but honestly, this image pretty much describes what I think about this statement:
As long as new civs add really something to the game in terms of gameplay and coverage of unrepresented world areas, I and probably many others too will welcome them with open arms.
To be honest, the new civs were a main selling point for me to purchase the Definitive Edition.
2 Likes
how about boar does not rot?
archers are a feudal only thing for them, good archers but then it drops of
how about extra range?
itâs their only anti-infantry unit,do you have suggestions?
not really, gold can be hard to come by
to fix it, what about monks are faster? (Champion speed)
they arenât designed for imperial archers, just feudal
if going for stables hussar and elephants were supposed to be the âreal optionsâ
im not sure if youâre saying i have to change it or not
elephants are the main siege for them, siege ram included for historical accuracy, but elephants are better as if there are few towers then the elephants easily shave off the arrows
also, should i give them the archer armor techs? skirms were supposed to be good
the free fire ship upgrade save a bit of time tho
that actually makes sense, from a historical perspective, monks are good at healing though
k, ill update the post, the elite upgrade might add armor tho
Thank you for your feed back, could you please elaborate on howto fix it though?
For the monk tech Iâve had an idea for a while, thought it might not fit here exactly.
basically:
- remove all monk techs (things like Faith and Herbal Medicin excluded)
- give Imp UT which makes monks trash units (100 food or 100 wood) and enables monk agressive stance (this is necesary to make swarms of monks useful)
Youâll be able to make swarms of slow, squishy monks with low range. I think this counters anything which is melee, hard-counters elephants, but is countered by archers, siege & monks.
1 Like
remove heresy too?
this could work on another civ, feel free to make a concept!
MBL 4 minutes after this civ is released:
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There arenât actually any similarities to that MBL game and the way trash monks would play out. The MBL game featured very intense micro, and monks converting each other. Trash monks would be easy to micro, and couldnât convert other monks.
Also, imp vs early castle.
Haha fair, but it was a joke haha 
so i buffed them with an idea i had, i thought of it myself, and to my surprise there was already a post!
the âparallel postâ can be found here
i also gave the urumi a health boost