New Civilisations to diversify old Civilisations

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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Some ideas for new Civilisations to diversify old Civilisations like the Burgundians are alternative Franks and the Sicilians are alternative Italians.
Disclaimer: I think new Civilisations in Africa or North America have higher priority.

Also the Ideas are not complete. There can be additional Bonuses.
I also don’t specify every missing/available Technology.

Alamannia

Civilisation to represent Germanic tribes, the Southern Holy Roman Empire and Switzerland.
Architecture is Central European but could be Western European too.

Unique Unit

Reisläufer (alternatively Lanzknecht):
Heavy and slow infantry with attack bonus against cavalry. Cost more Gold than Food.
A lot of Condottiero where from southern Germany and especially Switzerland was famous for their Mercenaries called Reisläufer. Lanzknecht where the German copy of that concept.

Unique Technology

Castle Age all Pikeman transform into Reisläufer
Imperial Age Town Centres produce a small Gold trickle

Civilisation Bonuses

  • Castles function as drop of building for all resources and can train Villagers
  • +2 garrison for all Rams
  • Spearman line +1/1 armour (Maybe Militia line too)

Team Bonus

Allies can train Elite Reisläufer in Imperial Age at the Castle that only costs Gold. 1/3 of the Gold cost is paid to the player playing Alamannia (the Gold is split in case multiple people play the civilisation)

Available Technologies

Fully upgraded Paladins and Champions but bad Archers and no Hussars.
Have Gunpowder units.

Gameplay

Infantry focused civilisation that has good Knights(no bonus but all upgrades).
The Castle bonus allows to build a Castle earlier in Castle Age because it also functions as a Town Centre (without being able to research it’s technologies). Perfect to be dropped next to valuable resources, making sure they can’t be raided.
The Ram garrison bonus makes them faster and stronger and helps the Infantry too by giving it cover from Archers.
The Spearman bonus helps them already in Feudal Age and compensate for bad early Eco and makes them more useful in Lategame.
Their Imperial Age Unique Technology gives them the dilemma having to choose between Castle and Town Centre for their econom.

Poland

They are very different from Russia and Slaves in the game are basically that. At the moment it’s better to represent them using Teutones.
Architecture Set is Central European not Eastern European.

Unique Unit

Pancerni Armoured Cavalry with Lance that is good against other Cavalry.
The bonus against Cavalry is not as strong as the one of Camel units.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age
Imperial Age +1/0 armour for all units (yes including Villagers, Monks and Trade Carts)

Civilisation Bonuses

  • +1/0 Armour for all Cavalry

Team Bonus

Available Technologies

All Cavalry upgrades besides Paladin.
All Archer Upgrades besides Parthian Tactics.
No Plait Mail Armour (Infantry) at the Blacksmith.

Gameplay

Cavalry focus but has also surprisingly strong Archers that have all upgrades and even +1/0 armour.
The Pancerni are perfect addition for a cavalry Army that makes up for the leak of good Pikeman (missing Armour upgrade makes them very weak against Archers).
The Hussars have +2/0 armour making them useful in Lategame, the Cavaliers are also good because they have all upgrades and +2/0 armour.
Knights are strong in Castle Age thanks to +1/0 armour and Bloodlines being available.

Czechs

Could also be called Bohemians.
Architecture is also Central European.

Unique Unit

Hussitan Wagon Wagon that can garrison Archers and Hand Canons. Can switch between mobile and stationary (like Trebuchet). Garrisoned units can shoot when stationary.

Unqiue Technology

Castle Age Destroyed buildings spawn 1-5 pikeman (depending on the building House 1, Castle 5)
Imperial Age Stationed Hand Cannons shoot bullets (in case that is somehow possible) maybe let Towers always shoot bullets.

Civilisation Bonuses

  • Stationed villagers boost the production speed of the building by 10% each up to 100% (10 villagers) making it twice as fast. Villagers can be stationed if Military buildings.
  • Villagers +5/10/20 HP in Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age

Team Bonus

All military buildings (Barracks, Stables and Archery Range) can station +10 units.

Available Technologies

Most upgrades for Infantry.
Ok Cavalry, Archers ans siege.
Hand Canons have full upgrades.

Gameplay

Defensive civilisation that is very different from other defensive civilisations.
The Hussite Wagons allow for offensive defence and the units that are spawned but destroyed building make raids, especially with cavalry harder.
The bonus from stationed Villagers gives unique strategies, like stationing villagers sto age up faster. Only having 10% bonus per villager makes it not overpowered in early game because every villager is needed for resource collection. This bonus also helps defence again as villagers can be stationed in military buildings to hide from attackers and at the same time let those work faster.

Southern India

Southern India has a lot of different Civilisations so I didn’t choose one yet. Maybe Vijayanagara.
Architecture is Southern Asian.

Unique Unit

Tiger Claw (See AoE3) Fast Infantry functions like the Eagle Warrior (has the Eagle Warrior armour class) but they are cheaper, less armoured and have no attack boni against Monks and Cavalry. They are still excellent Archer killers.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age Camel Riders produce a little food and Battle Elephants Wood (Like AoE3 Home City Card).
Imperial Age

Civilisation Bonuses

  • Villagers cost Wood (maybe 25/25 Food/Wood) (This one is extreme so maybe not)
  • Market building and Trade Units cost 50% less wood.
  • Farms cost 50 Gold but give infinite Food.

Team Bonus

Trees lasts 15% longer.

Available Technologies

Most Upgrades for Heavy Camel Rider and Elite Battle Elehpant but no Hussar and no Knight at all.
Most upgrades for Infantry and Archers.
Gunpowder Units are available.

Gameplay

They have a decent economy and and solid Infantry and Archers.
Their Unique Unit makes up for the leak of good Cavalry. Camels and Battle Elephants can also make up for that a bit but they are weaker than those of most other civilisations because of the leak of good boni for them. Camels and Elephants are indirectly cheaper as they produce a little resources.
Their Team Bonus is helpful in maps with little wood.

Southern China

China is a huge and diverse civilisation. Southern China is different from Northern China, why not show that. Maybe Song.
Architecture is East Asian.

Unique Unit

Fire Lance Archer that shoots small rockets. Deals AoE damage but low rate of fire. Good against other Archers, slow Infantry and Buildings.
Count as Gunpowder unit and don’t benefit from Ballistics.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age Volley Fire gives Crossbows +2 (maybe 3) attack bonus against Cavalry (and Camels/Elephants)
Imperial Age Pikeman cost half population

Civilisation Bonuses

  • Villagers cost 40 (maybe 45) food

This bonus might be enough.

Team Bonus

  • All military units train 5% faster.

Available Technologies

Most upgrades for Archers and Infantry (maybe no Halberdier).
Bad Cavalry. No Cavalier, no Hussar.
Battle Elephants but no Elite Battle Elephants.

Gameplay

The lower Villager cost helps in early game but is also very nice for booming.
The Fire Lances are a perfect addition to every army but are weak against cavalry when not defended because their low rate of fire and no Ballistics. The Attack bonus against Cavalry for Crossbows and the lower population cost for Pikeman can help with that though.

West Roman Empire

They outlasted outer civilisations in the game like the Huns so why not. They already appear in a lot of campaign missions.
Architecture is Mediterranean.

Unique Unit

Legionary Infantry that is good against other Infantry and has decent Piercing Armour (Maybe 2/4 Armour on Elite).

Unique Technology

Castle Age Legionary available in Barracks and can build them.
Imperial Age Towers cost 75 Stone and 50 Wood.

Civilisation Bonus

  • Barracks, Stables and Archery Range cost 25% less.
  • (Elite) Skirmishers have +1/2 Range in Castle/Imperial Age (But no Bracer available)
  • (Heavy) Scorpion +4/6 melee damage (With the default 3 melee armour from the Blacksmith that’s only +3 Damage in Imperial)

Team Bonus

  • All Buildings are constructed 10% faster

Available Technologies

Most University Technologies besides Keep and Arrow Slits.
Most Infantry and Cavalry Technologies including full upgrades Paladin without Bloodlines.
Archers are mediocre.
Most Siege units available.
No Gunpowder Units of course.

Gameplay

They have a very strong all round Infantry unit as Unique Unit that can withstand Arrow fire and is efficient at killing most Infantry (besides Jaguar Worriers and Samurai).
They can also build Barracks at the front to maintain production. They should be supported by Pikeman against Cavalry. Skirmishers with extra range are a good support against Archers but leak Bracer.
The good Siege Weapons are helpful. And the cheaper military buildings save wood.
Towers are bad (No Keep, Arrow Slits and Bracer) but very cheap thanks to the Unique Technology making it easy to cover a wider area.
Their Scorpions are especially dangerouse for other siege weapons because of their extra melee damage.

PS:
About Central European Architecture. I added 3 civilisations with that Architecture because I think the Goths, Vikings and Huns don’t fit in there. Especially the Huns, there is nothing Central European about them.

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What brings you to this conclusion?

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Not a single civ in North America, 3 civs for a continent three times as big as Europe.

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It isn’t about size
but recorded history and interactions with other nations

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Indeed totally isolated or civilizations with minimum contact dont make good stories.

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No problem if you add 4 North American civs at the same time. Same thing for Africa and some of the African civs I’m suggesting interacted with tons of other civs like Swahili.

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List your four, and I’ll go look for infos and things

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Abenaki, Huron, Iroquois and Mississippians.

Kanembu, Swahili, Nigerians, Kongolese, Monomotapa.

I have better things to do right now anyway.

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Well nice to see one of my many peoples :wink:

Abenaki and Huron are AoE3 era, I could find pretty much nothing in a quick search. It seems important Iroquois start in 1400s which is very late compared to rest of AoE2. Mississippians would be the one I support most from these.

Do you suggest Algonquin and Huron in AoE3 channels or don’t you stray into that world?

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There is no representation of the South Slavs (I would suggest one common civilization) and Georgians, Armenians and Romanians. It would be nice to spice up the rest of the globe as well.

You’ve listed 3 European civilizations here, and so have I. They could be mixed together with civilizations outside Europe. For example:

  1. Alamannians, West Roman Empire, Czechs + 1 African and 1 American
  2. South Slavs, Poles, Romanians (or Vlachs) + 1 African and 1 American
  3. Armenians, Georgians + 1 African and 1 American
  4. South Indians, South Chinese + 1 African and 1 American
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Armenians (infantry and monk)

Unique unit is heavy armored infantry (65F , 40G)
Stats(hp:65 attack:9 armor:1/1 speed:0.85)
Elite stats(hp:85 attack:12 armor:2/2 speed:0.85) (500F 900G)

Unique technologies:
Castle age: relics generate +50% more gold (300W 200G)
Imperial age: militia line +50% more hp (500F 700G)

Civilization bonuses:
Advancing to the next age cost -50% less gold
Monastery and monk available in the feudal age
Barracks upgrades research instantly

Team bonus:spear line +1 pierce armor

Georgians (cavalry and defense)

**Unique unit:**cavalry deal bonus damage to foot archers and cavalry archers (75F 70G)
Stats (hp:100. Attack:10. Armor:1/2. Speed:1.4)
Elite stats (hp120. Attack:13. Armor:1/4. Speed:1.45) (600F 750G)

Unique technologies:
Castle age: towers and castles neglect hill bonus damage (300W 200S)
Imperial age: stable units +2 pierce armor (500F 500G)

Civilization bonuses:
Receive +100 wood and +100 stone whenever a new age
Town center has +1/+2/+3 range in the feudal/castle/imperial age
Bloodlines cost no gold and husbandry is free

Team bonus: knights have +3 attack against cavalry archers

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I think that this one it’s not necessary. The Roman Empire Har its representation in aoe1, and aoe2 time frame takes place after its collapse. Also, the byzantines already correctly represented the late Roman culture, so it’s enough fo campaigns

If you want to add another western civ there are way more suitable options.

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To me it also makes no sense. I would prefer Austrians. And Alamannians would fit better historically to AoE 1.

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I just saw a video that a Deb describe how they choose new civs, and they usually look at a grand theme though the aoe2 time frame, especially if those civs have interacted with other present civs and so on. The north American culture during that time had little to none interaction with other culture present in the game, that why I think they didn’t add them, and it’s unlikely that they’ll add them in the future, and it’s probably the same reason why instead are more present in aoe3.

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Some time ago, I suggested a design of my own if a civ based on the Republic of Venice, now with those 3 civs, I think that they could create a DLC with the Silk Road theme.

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Republic of Venice it was a very important civilization - definitely different from the rest of the Italians. If they had joined the game we would have had enough Italian civs.
Sicilians - South Italians, Italians - North Italians and Venetians.

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Honestly, imho, if the devs want to make North American civs a thing, they need to double down on them.

The only way such civs and a their campaigns would fit the overall AoK themes, is if you do a focused regional expansion, ala Rise of the Rajas, where you introduce multiple civs in the same region, and showcase their interactions over a longer period of time. This is something that can work well with the Meso civs, and I think they can probably pull it off for North America proper, if there’s enough dedication.

Any attempts to do it “bite-sized” like Lords of the West would just feel like tokenism, imho.

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Alamannia is just redundant, they are already covered by the Teutons perfectly. Poland too, they are covered by other civs, like the Magyar Winged Hussars, Slav farmers and Lithuanian design. Czech are boring too. Southern India as a name is just so bad, and Camels aren’t Native to South India. Southern China is the same bad name. Chinese don’t need 2 more representation, because they are an united giant civ. Other East Asians like Jurchens or Khitans are fine, but they aren’t Hans. West Roman Empire exist in the game, because the unneccessary Goths and Huns and they are covered by Italians and Byzantines.

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There wasn’t a Nigerian Empire or ethnic group. South Nigeria was ruled by Yoruba people (Oyo Empire and Benin Empire) while Northeast Nigeria was ruled by the Hausa people.

Just add Iroquois, Mississippians, Pueblos and Inuits. :smiley:

I’d love to hear Venetian dialects after Sicilian, use the super strong navy and the trade bonus. We don’t we copy Italians to make a Venetian civ? :heart_eyes:

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I anyway want them to make beefy expansions. LOTW was kinda expensive for what it was.