Please be Japan!!!
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Ainda não dá para ter certeza, mas acredito que teremos três novas civilizações.
Aliás, tente manter o inglês nesse fórum.
Obrigado!
I am not sure I have seen historians doubting the accuracy of these reports, but I am certainly no scholar.
Here is what I understand to be true:
The Spanish Conquistadors reported that Mesoamerican arrows and darts could pierce their steel armor. The quilted cotton armor of the Aztecs was actually decent defense though.
Bernal Díaz del Castillo wrote in his memoirs “When, therefore, the attack commenced, a real shower of arrows and stones was poured upon us; the whole ground was immediately covered with heaps of lances, whose points were provided with two edges, so very sharp that they pierced through every species of cuirass, and were particularly dangerous to the lower part of the body, which was in no way protected.”
Díaz del Castillo wrote that his steel cuirass was pierced by an atl-atl dart and he was saved from serious injury only by the cotton armor he had taken to wearing underneath it. “Indeed, the Spanish often took to adopting some form of the quilted cotton ichcahuipilli , sometimes paired with a Spanish cuirass but sometimes not, because of the both the protection and comfort it afforded.”
I believe you are talking about difficulties in the technical sense, like bug fixing or adding new functions.
But “casual vs esports” is even a more complex problem. It is a higher-level design problem. That is to say, even if we have an omnipotent developer team that can implement anything really fast and really efficiently, they may still not be able to find a good balance between casual and esports.
Yes but it’s impossible scientifically. Even from a military standpoint it doesn’t make sense for Native Americans to already be defeating European armors when they had never faced anything similar to evolve their own weapons around. Europeans fought each other for centuries and kept evolving.
All mail or leather armor the Europeans had, it is plausible that it would’ve been pierced.
Just never steel cuirass.
Bernal Diaz del Castillo wrote about the events some 40-50 years after it had happened. Test of Atl-Atl doesn’t penetrate cuirasses and throwing weapons generally wouldn’t. It also wouldn’t have to, even if it did penetrate the armor, it probably wouldn’t 1: kill the man or 2: wound him enough.
But lets remember that it wasn’t a large force of Spanish, a large majority would have been allies. Fighting larger european armies, or fighting in terrain they wouldn’t know or in siege battles etc. That is where the main difficulties would lie.
Also the continued development of western arms at a rapid pace, would make the fights even more unfair.
But it would be really really sweet to be able to experience these battles in AoE4. I think Mesoamericans have a lot to bring to the table, with different weapons and strategies. I would also like to see some form of Spanish civ, whether it be something like Kingdom of Castile or so.
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In reading on, it seems like historians don’t know, and it is possible there’s some real disagreement.
"Diaz del Castillo’s account leaves room for interpretation, as it is not specific about what defense the darts could pierce. Also, as noted, it is the tepoztopilli Diaz del Castillo states as piercing his armor.
There is further attestation from Garcilaso de la Vega about the penetrative power of atlatl darts, which has its own issues, but has been routinely cited by John Whittaker, an anthropologist who has extensively studied the mechanics of the atlatl (though primarily in the paleoindian and hunting context). He actually agrees with you that an atlatl dart would not penetrate a breastplate, preferring to think that textual attestations refer instead to chainmail or leather armor.
Re-creations however, and academic studies acknowledge this, suffer from several limitations. First, the persons casting the darts are not professional atlatlist. There is a difference in the professionalism between an academic who has studied atlatls and someone in a culture where atlatl use is not simply commonplace, but mandatory for a particular class of people.
Second, contemporary re-creations tend to pit amateur made darts against professionally made modern plate. This is not the situation the Spanish would have found themselves facing in Mexico, wherein a group of mercenaries self-equipping far from the Iberian mainland would have faced an empire which had an industry for producing standardized weaponry. It’s not difficult to envision a situation where an Mexica warrior who had trained his whole life threw a professionally made dart through a iron breastplate produced by an amateur blacksmith in Cuba.
Diaz del Castillo and de la Vega do not say this happened all the time, they say it happened. That’s all. Single events recorded in history do not translate to common events in history, they merely point to what is possible."
This is found here Reddit - Dive into anything and is from /u/ 400-Rabbits, who is from all accounts a real life anthropologist and expert on Mesoamerican history.
I would take issue with this to the extent that we are speculating about how Native Americans would have fared against Europeans were they to have battled 100 or 200 years later. That line of speculation often assumes only the Europeans would have adopted new technology, and obviously all human civilizations have adopted technology as it became available and necessary, Native Americans being no exception. That can get tricky in games, too, of course.
Agree with both of the above,
Also I meant specifically at a rapid pace for the westerners. Since the Native Americans would also, but they would be behind in a lot of advances. Even if they would for example take apart an harquebus or something, they wouldn’t have the means to recreate it, at least not right away and it would require trade to aquire the materials and skills that they didn’t have.
What the western civilizations had advanced already in these aspects and established the required means, materials and skill required. I’m talking specifically about arms and armors in this respect as well.
Get where I am coming from? Not impossible, but the adaptation would require a lot of work, similar to the Japanese etc! But with this mindset, there is also a lot of mechanics to be explored. “How would they achieve their goals, despite this and how would they advance” or explore “How would they play with a more restrictive tech tree, but with other bonuses and possibilites”.
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Stone age culture against one that had left the Stone Age thousands of years ago…
The Stone Age/bronze age/Iron Age stuff are labels to describe how civs tended to work in Europe and Asia. The rest of the world had their own trajectories. Lots of advances in anthropology have taken place since old stodgy British guys declared cultural victory over the world in the 1800s and decided technology was some universal linear thing. Honestly the entire underpinning of this franchise is based on linear progression, which is super debunked.
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While some civs were fighting with bronze there were civs making weapons out of steel. But in AOE that doesn’t show cuz you know western civs have to have an edge. But instead the French get Knights in Feudal… it’s laughable but it’s a game, get over it.
Historic berserk and yes, maybe we don’t see Vikings in the game, but we can see Danes… a Danish campaign from leifbundir to gustavo vasa perhaps? (793-1523)…in Empire Earth you have a custom “Danish/Swedish” campaign…
Two or three for sure…
Well, the arrows were made of obsidian, so it doesn’t sound so far-fetched that they penetrate the metal breastplates of the Spanish…
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This isn’t elder scrolls, obsidian is very brittle.
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why are there ppl so obsessed about the accuracy of the civs/new civs??? pleeease give me a break, go and become a history expert then, this is A GAME! I mean, they will do what they can and you still argue “the angle of the sword wasn’t the one that the soldiers used back on Friday, March 8th, year 1624 at 8:26 am” cmooooon! whatever new content or new civ is great, it cant be absolutely real
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Hey, hey. But don’t forget about the ELITE crossbow, ELITE man-at-arms, ELITE horseman…
In all seriousness, I’m also hoping for an improvement from what the current uninspired civs bring to the table. Maybe as part of the new civs, additions to current ones are also planned?
And for those who point at AoE 2 saying that symmetric RTS bring more players in: think outside AoE… expand your creep…
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I think they will be the Byzantines, Seljuk turks and Huns.
That part of the puzzle was long ago deciphered and means “gamescom”