New Generic Unit ideas

Age of Empires: DE I - Discussion
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I made a thread about Unique Units ideas for all civilisations for the upcoming Return of Rome DLC but a lot of the conversation was about changes to generic units.

New Upgrades

Heavy Axeman

  • Upgrade for the Axeman
  • Available in the Iron Age
  • Could be especially interesting if Central/Northern European Civilisations are added.
  • There might be a better name for it

Iron Bullet Slinger

  • Upgrade for the Slinger
  • Costs change from Stone to Gold (because the ammunition changes to Iron Bullets)
  • Range increases significantly
  • Bonus damage against Archers increased

Auxiliary Bowman

  • Upgrade to the Bowman
  • Available in Iron Age
  • Weaker then Composite Bowman
  • Designed as a ranged option for civilisation that donā€™t have any good ranged units right now

Recurved Bowman

  • Upgrade from the Composite Bowman
  • Increases range and damage a little
  • The HP should be increased more to counter the new Anti Archer units better

Heavy Chariot Archer

  • Upgrade to the Chariot Archer
  • Shouldnā€™t make it that much stronger because the unit is cheap
  • Careful to not make it available to too many civilisations
  • Might be more reasonable if the Anti Archer units I propose are also added

Ballista Elephant

  • Upgrade to Elephant Archer
  • Higher damage but lower rate of fire
  • Might be more reasonable if the Anti Archer units I propose are also added

Light Cavalry

  • Upgrade for the Scout
  • Available in Iron Age
  • Fastest unit next to the Heavy Horse Archer
  • Decent attack but low HP

Camel Lancer

  • Upgrade to the Camel Rider
  • Increased attack and Speed
  • Able to outrun all cavalry but Heavy Horse Archers and Light Cavalry
  • Increased attack bonus against cavalry
  • Charged attack like Coustillier from AoE2

New Generic Unit Lines

Spearman

  • Start in Bronze Age
  • Bonus damage against Cavalry
  • Has a more Eastern/Asian look
  • Costs Gold (unlike the AoE2 equivalent)
  • Has a good base damage unlike AoE2 Spearman Line

Skirmisher/Javelin

  • Starts in Bronze Age
  • Bonus damage against Archers
  • Maybe also Bonus damage against Cavalry to be the Chariot Archer and Elephant Archer killer
  • Costs Gold (unlike the AoE2 equivalent)

Battering Ram

  • Melee anti building unit
  • Negative melee armour
  • Very high piercing armour

Regional Units

Hoplite Line

  • Now only available to Mediterranean civilisations (the Centurion is already only available to only 2 none Mediterranean civilisations)
  • The Centurion gets renamed to the name Macedonian soldier fighting in a Phalanx that canā€™t be named here because itā€™s censored for whatever reason.

The Elephants

  • They are already not available to many civilisations so they could be considered a regional unit

Crossbow

  • Available to Asian Civilisations in Iron Age (Potentially also the Greeks or Macedonians)
  • Low rate of fire but high damage
  • Therefor good against armoured units

Halberdier (Ji)

  • Available to Asian Civilisations in Bronze Age (with upgrade in Iron Age)
  • Alternative to the Spearman idea
  • Anti cavalry Infantry
  • Has a good base damage unlike AoE2 Spearman Line

New Regional units for new regions like Central Europe, South and South East Asia or the Americas would be a good idea if they get added at some point.

Edit:
I had to remove two names because of censorship. No idea what kinda word they wanted to filter, considering that one of them was just two letters (that also happen to be the abbreviation of General Electric).
Ļ€ĪµĪ¶Ī­Ļ„Ī±Ī¹ĻĪæĪ¹ and ꈈ.
Would be nice if the censor system wouldnā€™t also delete other character like brackets and new lines to completely ruin my formatting, thanks.

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A lot of these concepts are covered here (with cool art reflecting the games artstyle) Beyond the Indus - Manual.pdf - Google Drive

I hope one day we do see some of these, would flesh out some of the unit lines a bit better.

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I read that a while ago.
Many of my ideas arenā€™t that innovative, others had them before.

I guess the most unique concept I have is that I give Tool Age units an Iron Age upgrade without a Bronze Age upgrade.

The idea is that you are supposed to switch to Bronze Age units when you get into Bronze Age. If the Tool Age units had upgrades they would be too powerful to make it worth switching.
But most Bronze Age units are completely useless in Iron Age but I wanted to have alternatives to Chariots in Trash Wars.

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Recentemente vi algumas ideias interessantes para o age of empires 1 que poderiam ser utilizadas agora (futuramente) no dlc do age of empires 2: Rome return. O mod se chama 5thLegacy AOE1 mod. Achei interessante pois ate uma unidade anterior do Slinger ele abordou (na idade da pedra), que consiste justamente em um homem arremessando pedras com as mĆ£os.

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Now after RoR released I reconsidered my ideas.

Most of those new units will be available to less then half of the civilisations.

New Upgrades

Bronze and Heavy Axeman

  • Donā€™t benefit from shield upgrades anymore (only 1 base pierce armour)
  • Gain bonus damage against Heavy Infantry (Hoplites) starting in Bronze Age
  • Weak against Light Infantry (Swordsman) and Archers

Heavy Slinger

  • Doubled hitpoints (50 HP) and +2 Range range
  • Lead Bullets is a separate upgrade that changes the cost to Gold and increases the range by 2
  • Ends up with the same range as a fully upgraded Composite Bowman
  • Now benefit from Infantry melee armour upgrades

Auxiliary Bowman

  • Upgrade from Bowman
  • +1 bonus damage vs. Light Infantry (Not Hoplites) and +1 range
  • +10 HP
  • Base damage unchanged
  • That means 1 less range then Composite Bowman and less damage against everything but Light Infantry

Recurved Bowman

  • Upgrade to Composite Bowman
  • +1 Attack
  • +10 HP
  • Range unchanged
  • Now does the same damage as a Elephant Archer

Heavy Chariot Archer

  • +1 Attack
  • +10 HP
  • Armour and range unchanged
  • Now does the same damage as Composite Bowman

Light Horseman and Horse Lancer

  • Bronze Age and Iron Age upgrade to Scout
  • Bonus damage vs. Archers
  • Horse Lancer has a charged attack that as even more bonus damage vs. Archers
  • As Light Horseman as fast as Horse Archer (2.2) and Horse Lancer as fast as Heavy Horse Archers (2.5)
  • Weak against all Melee units

Camel Lancer

  • Upgrade to Camel Rider
  • Has charged attack too
  • Cost efficiently beats Cataphracts
  • As fast as normal Horse Archer (2.2)

New Units

Halberdier (Chinese Bronze Age Halberd/Dagger-axe) and Spearman

  • Available in the Barracks in Bronze Age with Upgrade in Iron Age
  • Bonus damage vs. Cavalry and especially Elephants
  • Does not benefit from Shield upgrades (very weak vs. ranged units)
  • Relatively weak against all other Infantry
  • Does benefit from Logistics (0.5 population)
  • More gold intensive then Swordsman (maybe 25 Food 25 Gold)

Battering Ram

  • Available in the Siege Workshop in Bronze Age
  • Good against walls
  • nearly immune to ranged damage
  • can garrison Light Infantry (not Hoplites with the exception of Greeks)

Crossbow (Based on Chinese Crossbow)

  • Available in the Academy in Iron Age
  • Lower rate of fire (2x reload time) and range then Composite Bowman
  • More damage then any other Archer (9 or 10)
  • Bad against Light units, good against armoured units
  • More Gold intensive cost (maybe 20 Food 40 Gold)

Changes to existing units

Hoplite Line

  • +1 range (like Kamayuk from AoE2) but -33% attack
  • +50% damage vs. mounted units (so original base damage)
  • That should make them even stronger in melee in most situations
  • Maybe give them +1 base Pierce armour
  • This buff is needed to compensate for the better Archer units

Cavalry Pierce Armour

  • Cavalry Line base Pierce armour to 0
  • New Cavalry Pierce Armour upgrade in Storage Pit, works the same was as Infantry Shield upgrade (1 in Bronze Age, 2 in Iron Age)
  • Applies to Cavalry, Scout (have 1 base Pierce Armour on top) and Camel Rider Lines.
  • Does not apply to Chariots, Elephants and Horse Archers
  • Now the efficiently of cavalry vs. Archers depends on the civilisation
  • Makes Camel Riders a lot better vs. Horse Archers

General Thoughts

  • AoE1 needs some more counter units to make the game more interesting. Right now a lot of civilisations just spam the units they are good at.
  • Not having access to Chariots is a huge disadvantage in Late Game. Giving civilisations without Chariots some trash alternatives helps balance.
  • Most of those units will only be available to selected civilisations.
  • Some units should be mutually exclusive for almost all civilisations, so either Auxiliary Bowman or Composite Bowman, either Horse Lancer or Heavy Slinger, either Spearman or Camel Lancer, either Battering Ram or Armoured Elephant etc.
  • Bronze Age upgrades for Tool Age units should all be expensive encouraging you to switch to new Bronze Age units.
  • A lot of those new Units could become the main units of new civilisations
  • All names and stats are just suggestions comment if you have better ideas.
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I think Return of Rome should have some new units and upgrades.

Axemen line should get new upgrades, I would add for example Heavy Axeman and Falxman.

I think it would be best if axemen upgrades come from iron age unless people find that Short Swordsman should receive buff then it could come from bronze age with different stats.

Heavy Axeman:
75 HP, 9 attack, no armor and moves 5% faster than swordsmen line.

Falxman: (If barbarian civs would come to AoE1 I would reserve this unit for them, anyway only very few civs should have access to them)
85 HP, 12 attack, no armor, +5 vs hoplite line and moves 5% faster than swordsmen line.

If we would add bronze age variant Bronze Axeman:

60 HP, 6 damage, no armor, moves 5% faster than swordsman line. Short Swordsmen receive +5 HP from 60 to 65.

Scout should also receive upgrade or upgrades. If they donā€™t want to upgrade them then they should receive +2 attack from bronze age like in aoe2 scout cavalry gets +2 in feudal age.

Bronze Age: Light Cavalry
75-85HP, 6 attack, no armor and +5% faster than other cavalry. Should also have res vs priest like chariots since some civs donā€™t get chariots.

Iron Age variant if needed: Lancer/Elite Light Cavalry etcā€¦

100 HP, 8 attack, 1 pierce armor and +5% faster than other cavalry + conversion res. As special power it could have +10 charge attack with cooldown.

Slingers need upgrades since less range than other range units makes it bad counter unit vs other range troops.

Bronze Age: Improved/Heavy Slinger

30 HP, 5-6 range, damage 3, pierce armor 2, is effected by melee armor upgrades and damage bonuses are same.

Iron Age: Elite Slinger

35-40 HP, 6-7 range, damage 4, pierce armor 3, is effected by melee armor upgrades and damage bonuses are same.

Camel Riders really need iron age upgrade, because they become pretty weak vs iron age cavalry units.

Iron Age: Heavy Camel Rider

140 HP, 8 attack, 1-2 armor, attack bonuses either same or +2 vs cav and +1 vs chariot/elephant compare to regular camel rider.

Heavy Cavalry should receive some health buff from 150 to 165.

I think that composite bowmen should receive Iron Age upgrade. Could be called Recurve/Heavy/Elite Composite Bowman.

Recurve/Heavy/Elite Composite Bowman:

50 HP, range 7-8 (should have higher range than mounted archers), damage 6, no armor.

Not sure but maybe Chariot Archers should have an Iron Age upgrade, could be called Heavy/Royal Chariot Archers.

85 HP, 7 range, 5 attack, no armor and has conversion resistance like other chariots.

Ballista Tower damage from 18 to 25.

Also I think rams should be introduced to Return of Rome. They should be available from bronze age. They called be called Battering/Light Ram, Armored Ram and Siege Ram. Since it would be totally new unit its hard to me give it even initial balance.

Bronze Age: Battering/Light Ram

150 HP, pierce armor 20 ( Ballista Tower should be capable to destory them so they should have 5 pierce armor less than basic ballista tower damage), damage should be better vs buildings compare to Stone Thrower.

Iron Age: Armored Ram

185-200 HP, pierce armor 35 (it would mean that ballista can deal 5 damage per shot), damage vs buildings should be better than Catapult.

Siege Ram:

250-300HP, pierce armor 40 (it would mean that helepolis can deal 5 damage per shot), damage vs buildings should be better than Heavy Catapult.

Anyway here are some my unit ideas, which should or could be in Return of Rome.

More upgrades to different units would make easier to make civs more different to each other.

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Slingers donā€™t really need their base damage increased because the Stone mining upgrades already do that.
Unlike for the Archers where the Wood upgrades only increase the range.
The main issue that slingers have is the low range and low HP, they just melt to quickly.

In the late game the Stone cost becomes problematic.

Also I changed my mind I think the game should get a Javelin Thrower unit.
But it should work differently then in AoE2.

Javelin Thrower

  • Available in the Barracks in the Bronze Age with an upgrade in Iron Age
  • Costs something like 15 Food 35 Gold
  • Affected from Infantry Melee and Pierce armour upgrades as well as Logistics
  • Not affected by Archer range upgrades
  • Same base range as Composite Bowman but no way to improve it
  • 8 arrack + 8 vs Archer but half the Rate of Fire
  • 0/2 base armour
  • relatively high HP, something like 55 in Bronze Age

They would play different compared to the Slinger because they are more of a front line unit. Lower range but more survivability.
They can also do some decent damage to armoured units because of their high base attack.
But their DPS is low and they donā€™t have that much range so Archer will outperform them.
They are a good addition to Infantry armies because they benefit from Infantry upgrades. The perfect unit for civilisations like Greeks and Romans to give some ranged support while also countering Archers, which also reflects their historic army compositions.

Archer civilisations can still deal with them by utilising the longer range of their Archers.

Any civilisations should only have a good Scout Line, Slinger or Javelin thrower not 2 of them.

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I think Crossbow should be very limited, only available for Shang, Lac Viet, Macedonians, Greeks and perhaps Romans.
Halberdier shouldnā€™t be common unit, since it was only used in China.

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The idea is to limit most of those units to 4 or less civilisations.
Iā€™d use Halberdier for other Asians too, itā€™s not historically correct but less wrong then the Hoplite line.
Iā€™d rather have Japanese run around with Chinese weapons then Greek ones.

Maybe Iā€™ll make a list of what units Iā€™d give which civilisations and what units them might lose in return.

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Editing of my last post is already locked so Iā€™ll have to make a new one.

Availability of the new units

Assyrians

New upgrades

  • Camel Lancer

New units

  • Battering Ram

The Assyrians have pretty good Archers already, upgrades to them could make them too strong.
Their Camel Lancers donā€™t have Nobility but they should still be useful to support their archers against Cavalry.

Babylonians

New upgrades

  • Heavy Chariot Archer
  • Light Horseman

New units

  • Battering Ram

Carthaginians

New upgrades

  • Camel Lancer
  • Light Horseman and Horse Lancer

New units

  • none

The Carthaginian army was famous for their Numidian light cavalry so they should have access to the new light cavalry units.
And of course they need the new Camel Lancer too.

Choson

New upgrades

  • Light Horseman and Horse Lancer

New units

  • Crossbow
  • Halberdier without Iron Age upgrade
  • Battering Ram

Removed units

  • Helepolis

The Choson need something to fight of Archers and since they already have decent cavalry that would fit well into the civilisation.
The Crossbow replaces the Helepolis for them.

Egyptians

New upgrades

  • Heavy Chariot Archer

New units

  • none

Heavy Chariot Archers would be a big improvement the the Egyptian late game army.

Greeks

New upgrades

  • none

New units

  • Javelin Thrower with Iron Age upgrade
  • Battering Ram

Just giving them Javelin Throwers would improve their army composition a lot. The perfect unit that protects their Phalanx from enemy archers.

Hatti

New upgrades

  • Heavy Chariot Archer
  • Light Horseman

New units

  • none

Similarly to Egyptians they would benefit a lot form Heavy Chariot Archers

Lac Viet

New upgrades

  • Recurved Bowman

New units

  • Halberdier with Iron Age upgrade
  • Battering Ram

Giving the Lac Viet better foot archers makes sense. The Halberdier helps to defend archers against cavalry but is missing the final armour upgrade.

Macedonians

New upgrades

  • Heavy Slinger and Lead Bullets
  • Light Horseman

New units

  • none

Unlike the Greeks the Macedonians get Slingers to support their Phalanx.

Minoans

New upgrades

  • Bronze and Heavy Axeman
  • Recurved Bowman
  • Heavy Slinger

New units

  • Battering Ram

Their Recurved Bowman also get the +2 range which makes them pretty strong in Late Game.
The Minoans liked Axes so they get all the Axeman upgrades. They will probably still mostly use the Hoplite Line to support their archers.

Palmyrans

New upgrades

  • Camel Lancer
  • Light Horseman and Horse Lancer

New units

  • none

Their Camel bonus needs to be reduced to +10% so they their Camel Lancers donā€™t get too fast.
The new Horseman upgrades help cover the archer weakness of the Camel units.

Persians

New upgrades

  • Light Horseman
  • Auxiliary Bowman
  • Lead Bullets (no Heavy Slinger)

New units

  • none

The Light Horseman and Auxiliary Bowman give them some decent trash options in late game, they are missing the Horse Lancer and the last range upgrade though.

Phoenicians

New upgrades

  • Light Horseman
  • Heavy Slinger with Lead Bullets

New units

  • none

They already have a wide selection of units for most situations.
Slinger where popular in that part of the World so they should get some upgrades for them, they are missing Siegecraft though.

Romans

New upgrades

  • Light Horseman

New units

  • Javelin Thrower with Iron Age upgrade
  • Battering Ram

The Romans love throwing spears at people they need that Javelin Thrower.

Shang

New upgrades

  • Light Horseman

New units

  • Halberdier with Iron Age upgrade
  • Crossbow
  • Battering Ram

Giving them a decent infantry and archer option increases the flexibility of the civilisation. They still miss Alchemy though.

Sumerians

New upgrades

  • Lead Bullets
  • Camel Lancer

New units

  • Battering Ram

They are the only civilisation to get access to both the War Elephant and the Battering Ram, that makes them a pretty good Siege civilisation.
The Camel Lancers help them to protect their Siege from enemy cavalry.

Yamato

New upgrades

  • Recurved Bowman
  • Light Horseman
  • Bronze Axeman

New units

  • Battering Ram

The Yamato get better foot Archers which gives them a little more flexibility in Late Game.
Their Light Horseman also benefit from their civilisation bonuses so they are pretty decent even though they are missing the Horse Lancer upgrade.
Unlike the other East Asian civilisations they donā€™t get access to the Halberdier Line because they have a fully upgraded Centurion.

Summery

I tried giving most of the new units and upgrades to 4 or less civilisations, the only exception is the Light Horseman (without Horse Lancer) because itā€™s not a very strong unit and the Battering Ram because it is only used for tearing down walls basically.
Some of those units would be used more by potential new civilisations like the Axeman upgrades for example.

Changes to previous ideas.

I tested giving the Hoplite Line +1 range. It wasnā€™t as impact full as I thought it would be so it wouldnā€™t make up for reducing the attack by 33%.
Though it can make up for reducing the attack by like -15%. It heavily depends on the armour of the enemy unit, the numbers difference and how open the battlefield is.
But the Hoplite Line is not that strong in practice because they die to ranged units very quickly so just giving them +1 range would not make them overpowered.

But the increased range feels really good to use. The army behaves a lot more like a Phalanx which looks really cool and makes them a lot more pleasant to use.

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Well if unique techs ever come to RoR, then Macedonia could get unique tech which gives their hoplite line +1 range.

For example: Iron age tech, will be called Sarissa and gives +1 range to hoplite line.

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