The best Eagles are Mayan Eagles and it’s obvious, even if JonOli12 thinks the opposite
3 Likes
here’s my question for you.
how do you beat condos right now?
you can’t beat them with archers, Condos with squires move almost as fast as a Teuton knight, so they are going to get on your archers.
you can’t beat them with champions.
you can’t beat them with hand cannons, they are designed to beat hand cannons.
hope you have good knights!
4 Likes
I am curios on what you think on this
Arbalest and Cavalier(Paladin)
Do Woads kill Arbs? No, they don’t. Condotteiri still have only one pierce armor.
1 Like
Arbs, cavalry, champions… everything work but from mid imp… I guess that was his point… I do not see actually a big issue, before condos where almost non-existing. And also only italian condos get the +1/1 armor…
2 Likes
Knights, boosted Champions (or Bagains 2HS and Trash 2HS), or Jaguar Warriors, Slingers and Plumes.
Everything else, I see no options.
Not with upgrades, then they have 5, which is enough to neutralize Arbs.
Condos now kill regular FU Champs and Arbs.
1 Like
they wreck archers the moment they get on them. Cavaliers and Paladins certainly work, but you have to maintain at least 1 to 1 production and seeing as condos are made 40% faster, that isn’t going to be easy.
yeah, they do. condos/woads take 18 hits to kill from fully upgraded arbs but the moment they get on the arbs its all over.
they can get on and kill the arbs with their superior speed.
its a lot harder and more expensive to tech into champions, they train slower, and they lose 1vs1
Knight onward is your only chance, and the condo train 40% faster. hope you have good knights.
now i’m going to go respond to @Sylux1000 wall of text above. afk a minute.
3 Likes
Woads
Condotteiro
1 Like
ahh i’ll make this easy. i don’t think you should touch their age up and dock discounts at all.
1 Like
and what does the archer line say?
Weak vs. Skirmishers and units at close range.
how hard is it for a unit that moves over 30% faster to get on top of archers?
yeah, and they were just buffed twice vs archers weren’t they? i agree cavalry is a good option, but frankly condos are still made faster, which makes them much easier to mass up. and what about civs who don’t have good cavalry like you know, meso civs?
1 Like
The age of empires wikipedia and ig tech tree show that Condotteiri and Woads are weak against Archers.
That is an option to make their early stages decent. The condo change has not modified anything in the early stages 
They will die before imp…
1 Like
they die to archers as they did in the past… also they are not cost effective vs knights and champions.
The point is the window they have in early imp. But it seems that condos have received the extra armor for everyone. The extra armor is just for the weakest civ in the game which typically cannot get to imp. All the other civs got just +1 attack.
2 Likes
I guess it’s a tough one to calculate. Since the knight can start being massed before imperial. The condo is mainly good if we don’t count the resource efficiency. So i might be wrong but its a specific window of power. You either beat them before condo, or outlast them with res?
Wrt to woads vs archers. The pathing really helped there, but in the past they used to get rekt by arbs. I think it will take a while before we all get used to the idea that melee units besides knights actually work again 
If arbs are meat shielded (like they’re supposed to be) i wonder then how much more effective they would be vs condos/woads due to lower PA
I don’t say the opposite, I agree with you.
They are weak against Arbalest, Knight-line and not cost effective vs Champions.
1 Like
at range sure.
what does it say about archers?
“weak against units at close range”. how hard would it be for a unit that moves at 1.32 speed to get on top of a unit that moves at 0.96?
18 shots to kill. once they get on archers the archers die.
they beat champions 1v1 and require less investment to be upgraded too.
they lose to knights 1v1 but they produce faster then knights do.
1 Like
right at the end of the final game. castle age woads, who have 15 less health and 2 less pierce armor, and 7 less attack (and frankly, i don’t even know if those woads had attack upgrades at all_ were able to easily get on top and do a lot of damage to a bunch of arbs. imagine if instead of trying to focus on the siege as a priority, what would have happened if they had focused arbs first
they don’t have to be, because they produce faster and win 1v1, and cost less to tech into.
pavise is 300 food 150 gold + a castle.
champion upgrade all the way is 1300 food and 555 gold.
that means condos are already 1k food and 400 gold ahead, which is 11 condos in just the gold side. if you want supplies on top of that, you’re out another 150 food and 100 gold, which brings your total up to 14 condos.
not to mention i can make condos straight from imp, where you have to upgrade from long sword to 2h to champion which is nearly 3 minutes of research time in which the condo can force engagements at even greater advantage. and seeing as Italians can literally get to Imperial Age faster and Cheaper then most civs, the advantage is even bigger.
2 Likes
The focus of the discussion was actually on the early stages. Condos may be good (actually they are in the beginning of imp, they become less and less powerful as the games goes on), but the issue under discussion is that Italians have early stages so weak that are pretty terrible.
They miss a military buff and they have a very weak eco. For instance we are discussing on 2 points:
- is a small military buff (like +1PA or free armors for archers) enough?
- is a rebalance between the two discounts a solution? This synergies well with condos with currently seem their only option…
Currently if you compare their land game to a generic civ, they are very behind both in military and eco…
1 Like
the only thing i see killing them is the Knight Line and Unique Units, so yeah they will fall off a bit when Cavalier hits the field, but beyond that, i don’t see Arbs or Champs stopping them.
i already answered this. I wouldn’t touch their discounts.
i want to see how the new condo buffs shakes out before i decide more about balancing them further.
I am not saying you are wrong, I am curious on the reasons.
Arbs? Well it depends on the numbers. Condos are cheaper but weaker than a caslte age knight. Arbalests follow the same principles vs condos: it depends on the numbers. Actually it is easier to one shot condos than knights.
Champions can dominate cost effectively, but the time window is not the same. If you want to stop condos early imp by teching into champion is non a great idea.