Nice ideas, Iâd go with a Feudal bonus instead of faster HCs and BBCs because Italians have a decent lategame. Imagine this with a Genoese Xbow with good TT.
My favorite is the faster projectiles idea. Either this or +1 pierce armor in the Feudal Age
There are more possible bonuses, like 10% faster Archer-line, but it doesnât fit the Italian armored Archer theme
I agree! Though I think buff not necessary to be from Feudal, starting Castle is fine too.
Iâd really want to see something that gives Italians another different unit-line to use, making them more multidimensional(rather than one dimensional) on land. Much like how the previously one-dimensional Turks recieved buffed CA. And preferably the ones that apply early on from Castle Age.
1. Archer Projectiles move 25% faster(partial ballistics before ballistics hits), also minor buff to their HC. This will also allow Italian Genoese Crossbows to more effectively catch moving Cavalry, which usually evade shots when microâed. 2. Skirmishers are created instantly starting Castle Age. 3. Scorpions cost 350 W. 4. Siege Towers cost no gold. (Allowing for unique fast Archer transport strategies on land, relying on Siege Tower Ferrari speed!) 5. Scorpions +5 bonus damage vs Cavalry. 6. Foot Archers ârespond more quickly to fire commandsâ(frame delay reduced by 5). (will act as a unique buff to their GC and HC as well!)
Tatar CA is completely different unit, stacking all armor upgrades + parthian tactics + silk armor for a total of +7 pierce armor on top of an already larger HP pool, if compared to arbalester. In practice plus 1PA means italians arbs can tank a couple of more hits from most ranged units, which seems pretty reasonable when compared to the other archer civ bonii like britons, ethiopians or vietnamese.
This is very cool imo. What do you mean by archers? Archery Range units + GC? I.e., units with the archer armor class. Because the word âarcherâ is not consistent in the tech tree. Britons have +1 range for archer as UT affecting skyrms. Italians have +1/1 armor for archers as UT and it does not affect skyrms.
Usually when someone tech into CG the game is over, while towers with HS can trash your galleons sooner.
Yeah and it could help to get GC too, but it would impact the game.
I donât think it would really make a difference, or help the Italians.
You would buff the condos rush too, and there already are people who cry that they are OP.
I donât want that for that they re-nerf them to a pre-patch level.
Yeah but you canât just propose the changes, thatâs easy, you also have to back it up with the math.
But CA have more HP and the PA coming from PT, of course +1PA on them is stronger.
+2PA (bonus+pavise) arbs would still have less PA than a tartars HCA, plus this bonus affect only one unit, silk armor affects light cav too.
No sorry, they were 2 separate examples of what have already been discussed.
But the range-atk upgrades at the blacksmith affect galleons too, their castle age would be stronger, and by a lot.
I did the math quickly but you are free to check it.
Ok no sorry I misread that, in that case there is no necessity of nerfing the dock bonus.
Whatâs doesnât convince you?
Hard no, it would be OP.
A bit of a weak bonus.
They already have the GC, then you complain that the UU arenât seen enough.
I already discussed in another topic, basically, foot archers already have low frame delay, there isnât really a margin for a buff.
Iâm not sure on how good it would be, it could work but I would prefer to see it first, and it would require a lot of testing.
Just a quick poll, I would like to know what of those 2 bonus would you prefer (or dislike the less) for a potential Italian buff with a new bonus.
When aging up, they receive that age archer armor technology for free instantly (no blacksmith required).
Their archers receive +1 pierce armor as bonus from feudal age for free (archer-arbs line only) that stack with pavise.
0voters
I know that some of you came up with other ideas or prefer something else, but since those two were the original ideas of the topic, and the results of a lot of other discussions and compromises.
Ok so you might think it is OP at 500W trash scorp too, I donât really want to discuss that though
What I do want to put forth is this:
1. Archer Projectiles move 25% faster(partial ballistics before ballistics hits) , also is a minor buff to their HC. This will also allow Italian Genoese Crossbows to more effectively catch moving Cavalry, which usually evade shots when microâed.
Much better idea if you ask me, also a good way to simultaneously buff the GC in what theyâre supposed to be strong at (but are not as great there as people would like to think)
It has to be discussed further, Iâm not against it but for now those were the more complete and easy to âunderstandâ (that you can immagine how it works) bonus.
Also, as I already said, those are already compromises, some of you have disscus them with me some time ago (I remember @Parthnan and @Sylux1000, maybe someone elseâŠ) and if you remember a lot of people brought arguments and opinions, so those are already the work of a lot of people.
I meant, how much do you lose from reducing that bonus at that level in that age, how much do you gain with the other bonus and so on⊠you know, kinda like SotL.
Though, again, I wasnât referring to you or your proposal in particular, but it was in general
I disagree, it would make any trash war an auto-win for the Italians, since trash scorps + FU hussars could counter any other combo, and one unit would cost only food, the other only wood.
Maybe maybe only magyar hussars could win, and not by muchâŠ
OK maybe it is âtotally BROKEN auto-win level OPâ, even if the scorps cost 500W (=75W * 6.66) as you say, but what I want to hear is everyoneâs opinion on is this buff
1. Archer Projectiles move 25% faster(partial ballistics before ballistics hits) , also is a minor buff to their HC. This will also allow Italian Genoese Crossbows to more effectively catch moving Cavalry, which usually evade shots when microâed.
It is my opinion, since in late game, wood is the easiest resource to acquire, and they could be massed.
That is the kind of bonus that you canât balance, since itâs either absurdly costly or OP, since scorps is the bast unit for crowd control.
I already answer to you, see the effect of free archer armor is easy, you just look at the resources and time saved, and you can use the editor with triggers to see the effect of +1PA on arbs.
The problem is, on the editor you canât modify the speed of the projectiles (or at least I donât know how to do it), so someone need to make a mod out of it, so to at least see how it would work.
It would also require that 2 people try it (not vs an AI) since it involves micro.
