The Deli has pretty much the same stats as a hussar but it attacks 3 times faster. So its dps is far higher. It’s far too strong. When armies are small in age 2 it can easily handle a similar number of musks or pikes. It just trades way too well against units that are supposed to counter it. The ROF increase was not warranted. I was spamming full ashi into deli and just losing lol, because its early age 2 and you cant get your mass up.
2 Likes
It doesn’t attack 3x faster it attacks 50% faster.
Anyway your point still holds because currently it does about 20% less damage but the fire rate is 50% faster than a normal hussar. The solution is just change the fire rate from 1 to 1.25 so they are only 25% faster than a normal hussar.
5 Likes
how about keep it the same as a regular hussar
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It’s a unique unit so it would be weird if it was the same. It’s slightly more expensive than a regular huss due to gold cost, so lowering it’s attack speed so it’s 25% faster but does 20% less attack is a good way of keeping it balanced but different. We don’t need all civs to have the same units.
7 Likes
Err Musks maybe but not pikes especially since they’ve been buffed .
But that’s no different to hussars, really the difference is razor thin between them.
It’s not that ottoman are too strong it’s that they’re not weak anymore.
They also don’t have as many upgrade cards as the typical hussar…So no
You just lost legitimately, If an opponent is going full hussar type, don’t make musketeers if you can help it, that’s why going full hussar on USA players is deadly since their anti-cav options suck. You were japan you could have made samurai, they’re cheaper now too. Going full cav against Ottoman prior to the patch was a weakness of theirs too.
Here’s the problem. The cav weakness was the only way to cope with the abus strength. Now both are buffed. The Jan’s don’t have to chase you anymore. They can just stand their ground and shoot along with the abus if they have a moderate cav screen.
Just plow through the opposition. Admittedly I’ve been doing ok against them but I have to hard rush every time to do so. There is no other option the way I see it. This likely is only going to work in this early stage while everyone is getting their new orders straight. Currently most are going trading post abus.
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Im kinda ok with Delis being really strong but i think their cost should be increased little bit rather then lowering its stats. Because delis look awesome cool…But bit op not because its stats but because its cost i believe.
If you want to increase its cost then it would need to cost about 50%+ its current cost
so the cost of french gendarmes
Or have the cost spread of an uhlan + a smaller cost increase
that is an absolute exaggeration… Gendarmes are way more superior unit then delis.
Only +%10 cost increase is well enough.(Delis have lesser hp and base attack then regular hussar )
Maybe even delis are ok now no changes required ( we have to see how it does in couple of months)
Well the common opinion as that Otto new units (deli and azap) are a bit too strong is pretty much everywhere so a nerf is inevitable.
That said, without the ROF, whats left? 5 less hp/attack, more gold cost proportionately, all for +0.15 speed? Nah. Ottos only got one card for cav ups and if the sipahi rush fails then a basic huss equivalent is a dang pointless.
Like I see you made ashi, but going musk into heavy cav in age 2? Before socket bayonet kicks in, yea, Deli won that and Hussars would have too. Yamabushi exist and your civ has samurai. I’ll agree thats its a bit much that maxed out imperial rumeliots can beat maxed imperial life guards, but this example was a skill issue plain and simple.
They win vs other heavy can and beat age 2 must like all other heavy cav - when they start beating pikes and equivalents, then there’s major issue. Other wise, a nerf could be to make the base attack speed 1.25 and upgrades take it down to 1 by guard level.
2 Likes
Increasing cost is not a good idea imo, it is already an expensive unit. If you increase the cost you make it like a cuirassier where it’ll only be made in mid fortress and combined with a shipment for a timing. It’s cost should remain as is so you can still make them early game to raid with like hussar, all this unit needs is it’s fire rate changed to 1.25 so it’s 25% faster than normal instead of 50% faster.
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Delis training time and cost may be nerfed not its stats.
Then their having less hp and less attack should be fixed to generic stats as well. Other wise it would be nerf to Ottoman Hussar rather then a buff.
They would still be faster and have higher DPS because they’d have 25% more fire rate in exchange for 20% less damage. Whatever they do the fire rate needs to be lowered even if they up the hp to normal huss levels.
In reality a higher base damage is more useful considering units moving and a constantly changing battlefield.
Hussar are marginally more practical.
Azap aren’t as great as their cracked up to be either, they’re still good at what they’re supposed to be good at and bad at everything else. The delay before attacking means they can’t hit and run and dragoons are often paired with skirmishers so they get picked off easy. At least until you get flight archery but by then that’s fair.
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they have the DPS of an uhlan with higher speed and higher raw HP and have much more favrouable cost then the uhlan as well.
Like to make the ultimate non splash cav comparison, their attack power is second only to the Cossacks per pop and much cheaper as well.
- Hussar is 15 DPS per pop
- Deli is 18.75 DPS per pop
- Cossack 26 DPS per pop
And the cossack is actually more expensive per pop then the gendarms
A cossack mind you cost 150 resources per pop
The deli only cost 100
so when I say its a 50% increase, its not a joking comparison, not to mention its faster
2 Likes
The other way around, a melee unit that attacks more often means that it is not constantly changing attack target, more likely to snare and doing more consistent damage
The way unit breaks snare is to time attack at the right time to run away between reloads, if the unit is reloading faster you cant run away
Edit : in addtion to that, in an even fight, the unit with the faster attack rate will always get the first hit in, so they will always win, leading to more snowballing
Tbh if they just have more speed that might be more then enough cause that mean that they can control all cav fight at will
Remember as well otto cav gain melee armour in age 4 now
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Unit with more frail HP like skirmishers need fewer hits though even snared units can still run away, a skirmisher might die to 2 hussar strikes a skirmisher might get to safety before the 3rd Deli hit.
It’s all about breaking points (barely overkilling) hussar tend to get more on skirmishers, Deli will be better on some other units but it’s really marginal.
Age 4 is age 4, British, French and Spanish hussar can have + 30/30 in Age 3.
Really it’s marginal in some situation i’m thinking ‘hussars could have done better’ but other times liking the different stats.
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thats not the point there, they are snared for longer, and that is useful in and of itself since that means your own range unit can catch up and murder them, like I dont know the abus that does range siege damage
Killing the units is actually not something you want since that breaks the snare for the entire formation and killing actually allows them to get away
A unit for example that is parcularly bad at snaring is the mahout for the simple reason that it murders everything within the radius at it hits, so either the army that fights it dies or gets away, there is often no snaring.
The deli is a snare machine, and they are faster then other hand cav so there is no getting away from them and the otto army that is chasing you.
keyword “can”, if they have the space in their deck, the xp and are already not losing to this monster. other civ would need a +1 card advantage to even attempt to fight so good luck surviving till then
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I Just tested it ! and that DELI unit is OP !
Its the best cav in game now.
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It beats Mohouts(without mansabdar) quite well (60 pop vs 60 pop) 6+ deli remains
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It also slaughtered Howdahs (which is easily the top 2 DPS light cav in the game, and handles gendarmes)
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against sepoy (best melee musk in the game) 50pop vs 50 pop , 33 sepoys remains. which is still a great for deli number considering how good sepoy is.and considering Mohouts vs Janissary (60 pop vs 60 pop) leaves 40 janisary alive.
It also performed better : against every unit than fully upgraded cav archer ,
so basically its :
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Great against heavy cav
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Great against light cav
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Decent vs counter unit/musk
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Killer against , every unit a cav should counters.
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Costs as much as a Naginata LOL
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