New Regional unit proposal: mounted crossbowman

Historically, mounted crossbowmen were used together with knight to charge against pike formation in Europe.


Loading cranequin crossbow while holding it against the belly.

5:28 Reloading with one hand while other hand holding stock.

It is actually possible to reload a cranequin crossbow on horseback though much more cubersome than a bow.

For its role, let it to have bigger anti-spear bonus to synergize with knight but reload slower. Get beaten by Knight, crossbow, skirmishers and cavalry archers. Fall off quickly and become niche in imperial age. With knight, strong in Castle Age without fletching-line upgrades.


Castle Age Imperial Age
Mounted Crossbowman Mounted Cranequinier
Cost 30W/70G 30W/70G
Training time 35s 35s
HP 40 40
Attack 9 Pierce 10 Pierce
Attack bonus +5 vs spearman +6 vs infantry
Reload time 2.5(2.25 after TR) 2.5(2.25 after TR)
Attack delay 0.5 0.5
Range 4 4
Accuracy 100% 100%
Armor 0/0 0/0
Speed 1.3 1.3
LOS Range +3 Range +3

It can kill pikes/ halbs in 4 shots. Even in small number, it will be effective enough against pikes.

For its availability to civilizations, there were actually a lot of kingdoms using it, like Holy Roman Empire, Poland, Swiss, Italians, France, Burgundians, Spanish, Portuguese etc. Maybe give it to Bohemians, Sicilians, Italians(no imp upgrade), Teutons, Lithuanians first.


Edit (1)
I expect mounted xbowmen will be given to certain civs without bracers. 1 more bonus damage will be needed to kill halbs in 4 shots. I changed it from +5 to +6 vs infantry.


10 Likes

Scottish and Irish used them as well for cattle raids.

2 Likes

I don’t mind adding Celts to access to Cranequiniers. I am not sure whether Celts need it for its knight though Cranequiniers alone can be fairly good raiders.

For historical accuracy all the civis in the western europe building sets should get this unit.I doubt any of them used mounted archers or nomads who excelled at it.

3 Likes

Yep, this should be the cavalry archer replacement for some European civs, especially the ones in western Europe.

On the other hand, I wish the Elephant Archer to be the regional unit for SE Asian civs as well (Burmese, Khmer, and Malay) and replace their cavalry archers. The only exception would be the Vietnamese who historically had a closer tie with East Asia, thus get to keep the cavalry archers.

4 Likes

I prefer to be more conservative when introducing new regional units.

Poles, Burgundians and France also used crossbow on horseback. But their Cavalry is relatively stronger. Poles have very cheap knights in late Castle age. Burgundians have early Cavaliers. Franks have throwing axeman and high hp knight. Spanish have Conquistadors.

Viet elephant archers +20% hp… Yeah, better leave Viet alone.

1 Like

Mounted Crossbows were historically often deployed against cavalry so I think that would be a more interesting role.

The bonus damage should be lower then the one of the Genuese Crossbowman so probably just like somewhere +2 or +4.

I suggest compared to (Elite) Cavalry Archer:

  • +1 Melee armour
  • +2 (+4) vs. Cavalry instead of Spearman
  • -0.05 speed (same as a Knight)
  • None of the civilisation get Parthian Tactics

Would make them kinda nice at countering normal Cavalry Archers but Cavalry Archer are still a little faster so they can avoid the fight.
The civs with Mounted Crossbowman still need to rely on Hand Cannons, Elite Skirmishers or Arbalests against Spearman.
Hand Cannons are pretty common for Western European civs so I don’t think they really need another anti Infantry unit.

3 Likes

Mounted Crossbowman inherently have high base damage, which is better than other archers against armored knight-line. I suppose that they are fine against cavalry when there are meatshields in front.

Compared to Parthian tactics heavy CA, mounted Cranequinier anti-spear looks meh in imp age. So anti-infantry replace anti-spear to keep a bit viability. Besides, with mounted Cranequinier, their knights formation have higher mobility.

Mounted crossbowman of the Song Dynasty

5 Likes

I noticed that and post in other topic. But I am not so certain the role of Chinese mounted Crossbowman.

I don’t like the idea of making them too general purpose.
I don’t think Western European civs need a new strong unit.

Find me a weapon system that wasn’t used in China?
You could argue for them to have access to pretty much any unit.

1 Like

The only way to see that working without affective the balance of the CA in game, is to make them as regional reskins for western European/some Asian civs.

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It lacks the speed to get rid of knights. Its low hp and 0 PA+ high cost will make it weak vs xbow.

Mounted Crossbowman will be murdered by knight if no melee units in front.

European civilizations are supposed to have bad mounted archers apart from Magyars.

It’s even more extreme for western European civilizations such as Franks, Teutons, Burgundians, Celts, etc.; they all have terrible cavalry archers.

That would solve much of the demand for regional units.

Indeed, as the xbow and arba are already an upgrade of the archer instead of being more specialised against heavily armoured units (one thing AOE4 got very right), the difference wouldn’t be that large.

Maybe add a new tech for civs that have mounted xbow skins (in practice mutually exclusive with parthian tactics) : cranequin crossbows : increase the attack by 1 or 2, making their horse archers more specialised for static fire support while civs with horse archers and parthian tactics will be more suited for hit and run tactics.

3 Likes

While I agree with the addition of new regional units to the game, I do not believe that this is a priority.

We are in a situation where:

  • the Huns still don’t have Steppe Lancers;
  • the Paladins are still not a regional unit (which is unbelievable);
  • and finally, with all these buffs to Hand Cannons, why not give the Arquebus to the European civilisations?

It also doesn’t make much sense on a gameplay/balancing level. Franks & Teutons are balanced to deal with enemy infantry in different ways.

2 Likes

Agree with Huns Steppe Lancers. Was there any place that also deployed Paladins outside Europe? Arquebus will be then replaced by another UT while Portuguese suddenly get it for free. Personally, I don’t wanna see Portuguese change in near future yet.

It is debatable that which civs should have mounted crossbowman. I mentioned that Franks should not have it as there is already throwing axeman.

You mean regional techs for civs that do not have Parthian tactics?

1 Like