New resource source ideas (like chikens, foxes and oysters)

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Recently we got chickens, foxes and oysters in the game that provide new ways to collect Food and Gold.
They don’t fundamentally change the game but they add new options for scenario or random map creators.

So why now add more of those?

Disclaimer

I do not suggest to add those to current ranked maps!
If they turn out to be popular additions they can eventually appear in tournaments and ranked maps too.

Crate

  • Provides 100 Gold/Food/Wood/Stone (one version for each resource)
  • Very high collection rate (similar to fox or even faster)
  • Resources have to be dropped of (unlike fox)
  • Not affected by any collection rate technologies
  • Alternative skins would be things like: Pile of Treasure (Gold) or Table with freshly cooked Food

Those would allow to add bonus resources to a map/scenario. More interesting to just make a trigger that instantly gives you the resources.

They cold be places on hard to reach places like islands or guarded by hostile Gaia units like bandits.

Treasure Chest

  • Provides 100 Gold
  • Is collected very fast (even faster then Fox)
  • Does not need to be dropped off (like Fox)

The propose is mostly to add an nice reward to players that isn’t just a trigger sending them resources.
Not requiring a drop of makes it even more of a reward and less of a chore.

Driftwood

  • Provides 100 Wood
  • Can only be places on water
  • Can be collected by Villagers or Fishing Ships
  • Can be destroyed by Demolition Ships (Not Demolition Rafts) and any unit that can destroy trees
  • Collects faster then wood from trees but is not affected by Lumber Camp Upgrades

Allows Fishing Ships to collect Wood similar to Oysters allowing them to collect Gold.
Could also be used to block paths on water maps similar to trees on land to limit Feudal Age fighting.

Ancient Ruins

  • Provides 150 Stone
  • 2x2 Tiles
  • Can be destroyed by any unit that can destroy trees but has more HP
  • Collects faster then Stone from mines but is not affected by Mining Camp Upgrades

A Stone resource that can block paths or just add more variety to map visuals.
Using ancient ruins as quarries in the Middle Ages. The St. Peters Cathedral was famously build with materials mined from the ruins of the Forum Romanum.

Ship Wreck

  • Provides 100 Wood
  • Can only be collected by Villagers
  • Can be placed on all terrain but should only be generated on beach terrain
  • Collects faster then wood from trees but is not affected by Lumber Camp Upgrades

Adds a bit of variety to water maps.
Can be an interesting wood source in the early game.

Trade Cart/Cog Wreck

  • Provides 100 Gold
  • Can be collected by Villagers or Fishing Ships
  • Collects faster then Gold from mines but is not affected by Mining Camp Upgrades
  • Unique version of Trade Cart and Trade Cog that transform into the wrecked version on death (keeping the Gold they had) should be added too that can be used in Scenarios

Same as Ship Wreck but for Gold.
If Gold runs low it might be worth going for Destroyed Trade Carts around the map.
Can also add a lot of flavour to a scenario.

Broken Ox Cart

  • Provides 150 Food
  • Can only be collected by Villagers
  • Collects at the same speed as hunt

Kinda similar to Chicken just that the food doesn’t decay or a better Berry Bush.

Silver Mine

  • Provides 450 Gold
  • Collects a little slower then from Gold Mine but is affected by Mining Camp upgrades

Simply a worse version of the Gold Mine. The idea is to have a late game resource. In most cases it’s not worth going for them until the Gold mines run out.

Diamond Mine

  • Provides 1200 Gold
  • Collects faster then from Gold Mine and is affected by Mining Camp upgrades

Very valuable point of interest on the map.
Could be used for a Gold Rush style map.

Salt Mine

  • Provides 2000 Gold
  • Collects a lot slower then from a Gold Mine but is affected by Mining Camp upgrades

Even more late game Gold source. Only worth it when all other Gold sources run out.
Dotting a few of them around the map could be done to delay trash wars.
Could also be used to make a tame version of Gold Rush.

Apple Tree

  • Basically a Berry Bush that converts into a Tree when empty
  • Same collection rate as a Berry Bush
  • Can be any other fruit too (Figs, Bananas, Coconuts, Cherries etc.)
  • Can be destroyed by any unit that can destroy trees, even when it still has Food on it

They should only be placed individually and not in large groups because they will block access to each other after the food is collected because they turn into trees.

Mostly for flavour and less practical then other resource sources.

Resource Trickle buildings

  • One version for each resource (Gold/Food/Wood/Stone) unlike Feitoria or Battle Royal Trade Workshops that trickles all at once
  • Destructible and Capturable version of each building
  • Rates can be modified via modifying “resources” the same way as Feitoria and Monument trickle rates.

Very useful tool for scenario and map creators. A permanent source of resource income that functions as an important point of interest in a map.
Whole random maps could be designed around them. They could also provide infinite Wood on water maps preventing situations where both sides can’t build any ships anymore because they run out of wood.

The destructible version can be used as important assets that have to be defended in a scenario.

Summery

These new resource sources would allow map creators to craft new kinds of experiences without fundamentally altering the game.
They would function similar to what the game already has but allow more flavour and more variety.

You have any idea for additional ways to collect the 4 resources?

5 Likes
2

Whales, walruses and elephants could give gold.
The stone ruins could be on the water too.

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Forgot Whales.

Though whaling wasn’t really a thing in the Middle Ages as far as I know. They were mostly hunter for their oil in the early Industrial Age which is probably why they generate coin in AoE3.

Elephants already exist, having 2 versions might be confusing.
Walruses make more sense. I wonder if it would be possible to collect 2 resources at once. Food and Gold (each 50%).

Ruins could certainly be placeable on water. It would be kinda funny to have Fishing Ship collect Stone.
Maybe sunken ruins as a separate building that only exists on water. This way they could look cooler.

2 Likes
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What’s the logic of diamonds being a faster gold generating resource than gold? Diamonds are notoriously difficult to mine and find.

I like the idea of things like shipwrecks and trade cart wrecks and that sorta thing. The rest of the ideas I could do without.

I’ve said this before in another thread, but these variation ideas are kinda bland, a way to actually spice up resource gathering in the game would be to introduce regenerating resources like forests, fish and huntable animals or even herdables.

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These are not really my thing. It seems like further creep toward AoE3 gameplay and design. If they want to add more AoE3 type stuff, they should re-kindle AoE3 and do it there :slight_smile:

We all know this is where they’d end up eventually. Ranked has small trees, tower range indicators, auto-scout, and any mod under the sun you can think of is allowed. Nothing will keep gatherable crates, treasure chests, driftwood, ruins, and ship wrecks, etc. out of ranked. It’s too enticing on the surface.

I far, far, far prefer most of your suggestions to be environmental set dressing that is just decoration for anyone – not gatherable – including in SP/MP private random map scripts. Some of the things are already available for mappers, just probably not gatherable (thank goodness), but hardly ever if ever appear on random maps.

The mines are a different story for me, but moreso in a new age before Dark, or for a late-game Renaissance tech. I talk about in more detail in last parts of my post.

Yes, could be neat for campaigns/scenarios. But I fear we’ll all the sudden have gamey easter egg hunts all over maps, coupled with achievements… "I :heart: AoEIII 4ever Trophy: “You’ve collected 50 AoE3-like treasure chests!”)

Yeah, another Age before Dark Age would be nice. Maybe the new mines could exist there and be entrenched in the game in terms of techs, weapons, units, armour, food, etc. I don’t want superficial implementation. Either that, or a late game “Renaissance” tech, where the game is pretty much over but you just want to mess around on the map a while longer… embellishing your empire. Such mines could appear to gather from, for use in making your empire look cooler (statues, roads, paths, flags, architectural touches, wall decorations, and so on). Something I’ve long-wanted, as in multi-player, sometimes we just sit for an hour with 100+ trade carts, building walls to contain enemy AI, having fun messing around with econ/tech stuff.

A couple past threads and some of my thoughts surrounding the topic:

I like the thought of more resources since we are all pros now and can handle more. I just wanted it more deeply entrenched in the game as opposed to an artificial, “You just found a broken merchant cart! You get +25 food!”. “You just found an ancient relic! +50 gold!”

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Spice trees/bushes with wood replaced by gold.You can get a lot of graphic variation as its a tree/bush cinnamon tobacco chillies nutmeg etc.

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They are more valuable so you need to mine a lot less to get the same value.
Also it’s something most people will trivially understand that it’s more valuable unlike other more exotic materials. Making a Platinum mine would likely be more confusing.

Regrowing trees and stuff might be a little hard to implement.
Infinite fish seem more reasonable.
AoM has infinite fish but it’s limited to one Fishing Ship each.
AoE3 has infinite Whales but they are limited to 4 Fishing Ships.
Infinite trees would be strange. Maybe if it was a larger object, like 2x2 or 3x3 tiles it would make more sense.
AoE2 could also limit them the same way it limits Farms and Fish Traps so only one villager can collect from them at once.

Regrowing new trees could have strange side effects like units getting stuck.
Repopulating hunt feels kinda gimmicky, especially because you can just use farms anyway.

People make infinite resources with triggers on community maps already so why not make official version of them that you can just place on a map?
Limiting them to 1 Villager/Fishing Ship would be interesting for balance.

Those are all visual things (besides Auto Scout), things that all existed as mods before so giving them to everyone is just more fair.

AoE2 has a bunch of features that never made it into ranked.
Some people keep forgetting that AoE2 has other things to it that aren’t just ranked matches.
I personally don’t play ranked at all. I want all those things to make scenarios or custom random maps to play with my friends.

Why are you against giving more resources to map makers?
Just because you are afraid it might some day appear in ranked?

What does a new Age before Dark Age have to do with mines?
Also wouldn’t that fundamentally change the game?
Seems like a very strange suggestion in general. Dark Age is already longer in AoE2 then it is in AoE3/AoE4/AoM, why add even more waiting time before Feudal Age?
Or am I understanding your suggestion wrong?

This suggestion confuses me.
You want statues that spawn when you research “Renaissance” that you can mine?

That’s a cool idea.

2 Likes
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I personally woul like some “slow but infinite ressource spots”.

In Water their could be the a “Lotus” that recharges a pile of gold and wood which can be collected by fishing ships (total res income about 20 % slower than the current oysters) - if you exhaust it it’s gone

On land there could be special mines with infinite Gold (also collected considerably slower, like 30-50 %)

Also some fruit trees that are basically infinte berries

Important: None of these should be affected in any form by any Bonus or Technology. So no civ gets an unfair advantage. They are intended to give chances to break an eventual stalemate in the lategame - and make the game still interesting when the normal gold supply run out.

9

You know how farms work?
They have a food production rate. All farming rare related civ bonus also increase this food production rate.
Those infinite resources could work the same way. If this rate is fixed you can’t extract more even if your workers are faster.

Those would be some nice addition to things like diplomacy maps.
They often already use triggers to respwan resources like Mines or Fish but those can be collected by as many villagers as fit around it so it gives a way to big infinite income in my opinion.

Captureable buildings that trickle resources would do a similar thing.
Both would be nice options to have.
The capturable buildings have the advantage that they could work in a scenario where you don’t have villagers, just production buildings.

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Both would be nice. Capturable Buildings would also influence the early game massively what you sometimes want, sometimes not.
So depending on what the map scripter wants to achieve he/she would be able to choose between the options. So I hope both get implemented.

Only need to make sure that those who exhaust aren’t affected to have a reliable outcome independent of civ

(especially for water maps this is relevant. It’s intentional that the gold/wood ressource can be exhausted to give the opponen less value by retaking water control - to achieve a timing relevant dynamic that can be used with extra action investment)

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Capturable buildings would ne nice in a context where they can be guarded hostile Gaia units or AI players.

But in a map with a normal Dark Age start regenerating resources would be more balanced.

1 Like
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For capturable Buildings I would like to see smaller ones for individual ressources.

Like 1x1 or 2x2 towers for each ressource worth 1 vill collecting (so for wood more than for the others)

Previously we had the issue with the designed maps that they had way too high income of these - and with smaller buildings that give specific ressources at a slower rate the map scripters could just place a few of them close to each other - adjusting to the evolving meta there.

There could also be one that increases general ressource gather rate in a radius around it - to set initatives for certain expansions, usually a bit further away from the starting locations, so these expansions wouldn’t be as easy to connect with your main bases. Especially on more open designed maps this could be an interesting tool to ensure the meta doesn’t becomes “arena walls”.

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  1. Just like AoE3
  2. Yep, is what I was trying to say. Your ideas will exist in custom scenario/campaign land for a while, but just like golden foxes and small trees, they will eventually end up in the entire game
  3. Nor do I. But once it’s in ranked, it leaks out into the rest of the game, too, including the parts I play: SP and MP vs. AI private matches
  4. I’m all for that if I knew it would be contained there. It won’t be, though
  5. It’s just an idea. I know I’m unique in wanting to “rough it” for a while longer in the game before skirmishes, war, and victory. I like building economy, and starting from nothing.
  6. No. You research Renaissance, and it would open up more things you can build, and reveal new mines on the terrain that we haven’t seen before.
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While reading about Kanem-Bornu, a similar idea came to me: an oasis. A capturable building around a one-tile pond randomly generated by the map. Perhaps each map could have 5, like the relics, or it could depend on the number of players in the match. Each player would only be allowed to capture one per map and would have to choose between having it produce wood, food, or gold, with the Kanuri, in this case, being the only civ allowed to build one (just one).
Or maybe it should just be a unique building for this or another civ, I don’t know. As you can see, I haven’t thought much about what it will be yet.

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You can configure Monument resource trickle rate via triggers or random map configuration already.

Too high rates are because the creators of the map decided on those numbers.

I would rather have 3x3 or even 4x4 tiles large buildings and then just have the ability to adjust the rates.

For the infinite resources I would also like them to be 2x2 or 3x3. It would be strange to have an infinite tree that is as big as one normal tree.
Having a 3x3 grove that regrows makes more sense in my opinion.

It only works like that on Silk Road.
On other maps it’s only treasures that are guarded.

AoMR does the Silk Road map differently. In AoMR the trickle rate depends on your age. This way it doesn’t impact the early game too much.

In SP vs. AI you can control everything so you could easily avoid those features.
Especially the infinite resource ones will never appear in official maps.
Other ones only make sense in special maps like Gold Rush.

Of course if you play with friends then those friends could want to play things that you don’t like.

A bunch of my suggestions are incompatible with ranked so I don’t think it would end up there.

ah ok. That is a very different topic though. This would be a very fundamental change to the game mechanics, not easily possible.

So a technology that gives you access to resources that you couldn’t access before?

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Personally I find fox generating gold and villagers not needing to drop off them as very weird. I also understand requiring either Mining Camp or Mill will be confusing too.

I liked the idea. But I’ll suggest make it instant 100 gold. And you don’t need villagers to collect them. Just touch the chest with a unit and you will get 100 gold. I’m not sure if it is possible to add such thing though.

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Yep!