New Revolutions for Existing Civilizations

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

Since revolutions seem to have become more important in the upcoming DLC and since they now eem to be representing alternate regime changes of base civilizations (German Confederation, Revolutionary France, Prussia, Duchy of Warsaw, etc.), I think it is fitting to think about potential historical revolutions for existing civilizations that represent both colonial revolutions but also internal regime changes/revolutions. This would allow more flexibility for each civilization and allow to represent aspect of said civilization through the revolution mechanic. Here’s my proposal for potential future revolutiosn for each civilization:

British

  • Canada (based on the Dominion of Canada), available from age III onwards.
  • South Africa (based on the Dominion of South Africa), available from age IV onwards.
  • United States, available from age III onwards.
  • Republic of Pirates (based on the pirate proto-nation based in Nassau), available from age II onwards.
  • Australia (based on the Dominion of Australia), available from age IV onwards.
  • British Raj, available from age IV onwards.
  • British Republic (based on the Cromwell’s Commonwealth), available from age III onwards.

Dutch

  • Indonesia (based on the Sultanate of Yogyakarta), available from age IV onwards.
  • South Africa (based on the Republic of South Africa), available from age III onwards.
  • Brazil (based on the Dutch colonies in Brazil), available from age III onwards.
  • Republic of Pirates (based on Caribbean pirates in general), available from age II onwards.
  • Dutch Kingdom (based on the UK of the Netherlands), available from age IV onwards.

French

  • Canada (based on New France), available from age III onwards.
  • Haiti (based on the Haitian Empire), availaible from age III onwards.
  • Republic of Pirates (based on Caribbean pirates in general), available from age II onwards.
  • Louisiana (based on French Louisiana), available from age III onwards.
  • French Republic, available from age III onwards.
  • French Empire (based on Napoleonic France), available to French Republic from age IV onwards.

German (assuming the base German civilization represents the Kingdom of Germany within the HRE)

  • Austria (based on the Habsurg Monarchy), available from age II onwards.
  • Bohemia, available to Germans in general and to Austria from age III onwards.
  • Saxony, available from age III onwards.
  • Bavaria, available from age III onwards
  • Prussia, available from age II onwards
  • German Confederation, available to Prussia, Saxony or Bavaria from age IV onwards.
  • Hungary, available to Austria from age III onwards.
  • Austria-Hungary, available to Austria and to Hungary from age IV onwards.
  • Livonia, available to Prussia from age III onwards.

Ottoman

  • Algeria (based on the Algiers Regency and replacing Berber Pirates), available from age I onwards.
  • Egypt (based on the Eyalet and Sultanate of Egypt), available from age II onwards.
  • Hungary, available from age III onwards.
  • Romania (based on the United Principalities of Moldova and Wallachia), available to Ottomans and Hungary from age IV onwards.
  • Greece (based on the Hellenic Republic), available from age III onwards.
  • Arabia or Hejaz (based on the Kingdom of Hejaz), available from age IV onwards.
  • Republic of Turkey, available from age IV onwards.

Portuguese

  • Brazil (based on the Empire of Brazil), available from age III onwards.
  • Republic of Portugal, available from age IV onwards.

Russian

  • Finland (based on the Grand Duchy of Finland), available from age III onwards.
  • Romania (based on the United Principalities of Moldova and Wallachia), available from age IV onwards.
  • Cossack Hetmanate, available from age II onwards.
  • Russian Republic (based on the Russian Republic with some early Soviet elements), available from age IV onwards.

Spanish

  • Argentina (based on the United Provinces of the RĂ­o de la Plata), available from age III onwards.
  • Chile (based on the early Republic of Chile), available from age III onwards.
  • Colombia (based on Gran Colombia and the United Provinces of New Granada), available from age III onwards.
  • Mexico (based on the Empire of Mexico), available from age III onwards.
  • Peru (based on the early Republic of Peru), available from age III onwards.
  • Republican Spain (base don the First Spanish Republic), available from age IV onwards.
  • Catalonia (based on Catalan separatist movements during the War of Spanish Succesion), available from age IV onwards.
  • Galicia (based on Galician separatist movements during the War of Spanish Succesion), available from age IV onwards.

Chinese (assuming the base Chinese civilization represents the Ming Dynasty)

  • Qing China (assuming that the Chinese start as the Ming Dynasty), available from age II onwards.
  • Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, available to base (Ming) Chinese and to Qing China from age IV onwards.
  • Republic of China (base don the First Republic of China), available to base (Ming) Chinese and to Qing China from age IV onwards.
  • Mongolia (based on the Oirat Confederation), available from age III onwards.

Haudenousaunee

  • Northwestern Confederacy, available from age III onwards
  • Tecumseh’s Confederacy, available to the Haudenosaunee and the Northwestern Confederacy from age IV onwards.

Aztec

  • Tlaxcala (based on the native colonial province of Tlaxcala within New Spain), available from age III onwards.

Inca

  • Neo-Inca State, available from age III onwards
  • Tupac Amarú’s Revolt, available from age IV onwards

Indians (assuming the base Indian civilization represents the Mughal Empire)

  • Maratha (based on the Maratha Confederacy), available from age II onwards.
  • Afghanistan (based on the Durrani Empire), available from age II onwards.
  • East India Company, available from age III onwards.
  • British Raj, available to base India (Mughals) and to the East India Company from age IV onwards.

Japanese

  • Meiji Japan (assuming that the japanese start as the Tokugawa Shogunate), available from age IV onwards.

Swedish

  • Norway (based on the Kingdom of Norway), available from age III onwards.
  • Iceland (based on the Kingdom of ICeland), available to Sweden and Norway from age IV onwards.
  • Finland (based on the Grand Duchy of Finland), available from age III onwards.
  • Livonia (based on the Duchy of Livonia), available from age III onwards.
  • Republic of Pirates (based on Caribbean pirates in general), available from age II onwards.

Americans

  • Texas (based on the Republic of Texas), available from age III onwards.
  • California (based on the Republic of California), available from age III onwards.
  • New England (based on New England separatists ideas during the 19th century), available from age III onwards.
  • Deseret (based on the State of Deseret), available from age IV onwards.

Mexicans

  • They keep all the revolutions they currently have as they are.

Ethiopians

  • Oromo (based on the Kingdom of Jimma), available from age III onwards.
  • Harari (based on the Emirate of Harar), available from age II onwards.
  • Somalia or Adal (based ont he Sultanate of Adal), available from age I onwards.

Hausa

  • Sokoto (based on the Sokoto Caliphate), available from age III onwards.

Italians (assuming the base Italian civilization represents the Kingdom of Italy within the HRE)

  • Sicily (based on the Kingdoms of Naples and Sicily), available from age I onwards.
  • Two Sicilies (based on the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies), available from to Sicily from Age IV onwards.
  • Venice (based on the Republic of Venice), available from age I onwards.
  • Florence (based on the Republic of Florence), available from age I onwards.
  • Milan (based on the Duchy of Milan), available from age I onwards.
  • Savoy (based on the Duchy of Savoy), available from age II onwards.
  • Italian Republic (based on Napoleonic Italy), available to Sicily, Venice, Florence, Savoy and Milan from age III onwards.
  • Kingdom of Italy, available to the Italian Republic and Savoy from age IV onwards.

Maltese

  • Kingdom of Jerusalem, available from age IV onwards.
  • Greece (based on the Hellenic Republic), available from age III onwards.
  • Republic of Pirates (based on Caribbean pirates in general), available from age II onwards.

Danish

  • Norway (based on the Kingdom of Norway), available from age III onwards.
  • Iceland (based on the Kingdom of Iceland), available to Denmark and Norway from age IV onwards.
  • Livonia (based on the Duchy of Livonia), available from age III onwards.
  • Republic of Pirates (based on Caribbean pirates in general), available from age II onwards.

Polish

  • Warsaw (based on the Duchy of Warsaw), available from age III onwards.
  • Cossack Hetmanate, available from age II onwards.
  • Livonia (based on the Duchy of Livonia), available from age II onwards.
  • Lithuania (based on the Grand Duchy of Lithuania), available from age III onwards.

Revolutions for potential civilizations that could be introduced in the future:

Moroccan

  • Maasina or Fulani (based on the Caliphate of Hamdullahi), available from age III onwards.
  • SalĂ© (based on the (Pirate) Republic of SalĂ©), available from age II onwards.

Colombian (similar to Mexico, with many revolutions trying to simulate the various separatist nations that wanted independence from Gran Colombia, as well as the nations who joined together to form Gran Colombia)

  • Cundinamarca (based on the Free State of Cundinamarca), available only on age II. Can “rejoin” and return to the base Colombian civilization on age III.
  • New Granada (based on the United Provinces of New Granada and the Republic of New Granada), available only on ages II and IV. Can “rejoin” and return to the base Colombian civilization on age III.
  • Venezuela (based on the early Republics of Venezuela and the State of venezuela), available only on ages II and IV. Can “rejoin” and return to the base Colombian civilization on age III.
  • Panama (based on the State of Panama from 1821), available only on age III. Can “rejoin” and return to the base Colombian civilization on age IV.
  • Ecuador (based on the State of Ecuador from 1830), available only on age III. Can “rejoin” and return to the base Colombian civilization on age IV.

Federal State Cards for Gran Colombia:

  • Age II: Mariquita, Barinas, Valle del Cauca, Quito
  • Age III: Casanare, Cumaná, Socorro, Tunja
  • Age IV: Antioquia, Maracaibo, Tunja, Cartagena
  • Age V: Cundinamarca, Panama, Caracas, Guayaquil

Brazilian

  • Uruguay, available from age IV onwards
  • Republic of Brazil (based on the First Republic of Brazil), available from age IV onwards.

Argentinian (same as Mexico and Colombia)

  • Buenos Aires (based on the State of Buenos Aires), available only on age IV.
  • Tucumán (based on the Province of Tucumán), available only on age III. Can “rejoin” and return to the base Argentinian civilization on age IV.
  • Uruguay (based on the Federal League), available only on age II. Can “rejoin” and return to the base Argentinian civilization on age III.
  • Paraguay (based on the early Republic of Paraguay), available only on age II. Can “rejoin” and return to the base Argentinian civilization on age III.

Federal State Cards for Argentina:

  • Age II: Tucumán, Paraguay, Entre RĂ­os, Mendoza
  • Age III: Cuyo, Misiones, Montevideo, La Rioja
  • Age IV: Salta, Santa Fe, Corrientes, Patagones
  • Age V: Buenos Aires, CĂłrdoba, Chuquisaca, Cochabamba

Persian (assuming the base Persian civilization represents Safavid Iran)

  • Qajar Persia, available from age III onwards.
  • Afghanistan (based on the Durrani Empire), available from age II onwards.

Omani

  • Zanzibar (based on the Sultanate of Zanzibar), available from age IV onwards.
4 Likes
2

Juat give me Greece and modernization techs/cards for Aztecs (Tlaxcala using Spanish weaponry and tactics), Inca (Same, neoinca state) and China.

Maybe some Austrian rev for Germany too.

2 Likes
3

I think it’s a pretty interesting idea; most of the proposed revolutions and revolution mechanics are very well thought out, though I would add a Cuba revolution for Spain in Age 4. And please, add the Tlaxcala revolution for the Aztecs—we don’t just need it, it is urgent to have that revolution so the Aztecs can become relevant in the game again. The “Strengthening” revolution for China is also quite necessary. Hopefully, the developers can do something about it.

4

Tlaxcalans were never part of the Aztec empire. In my opinion, the Tlaxcalans should be represented either as native allies or mercenaries exclusive to both spanish and mexican civs. Not as a revolt for the Aztecs.

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5

Paraguay became independent from Spain in 1811, 5 years before AR. One hundred years earlier, the Comunera Revolution took place, considered the first precedent for independence in the region.
Furthermore, not only does it make no sense to consider Paraguay as a “revolution” of Argentina, the Battle of Paraguarí (Cerro Porteño) clearly demonstrated that they were not necessary for independence.

7

What Paraguay did on May, 1811 was basically creating an autonomous government junta to rule the colonial province of Paraguay in the name of Spanish king Ferdinand VI while he was captured by Napoleon. Various other colonial provinces in South America did the same around 1810-1811, such as Buenos Aires (May, 1810) and Mendoza (June, 1810). Neither Buenos Aires, Mendoza, nor Paraguay declared independence on 1810-1811, just autonomy from the Central Government Junta of Spain back in Europe.

It was only in 1813 that the colonial province of Paraguay declared itself to be a republic and, therefore, declared absolute independence from both Spain and the United Provinces of the RĂ­o de la Plata, which declared absolute independence in 1816.

However, Paraguay had been a province of the Viceroyalty of the RĂ­o de la Plata, which was succeeded by the United Provinces of the RĂ­o de la Plata, who asked Paraguay to join and who claimed Paraguay to be part of its territory due to them inheriting the claims to the territories of the former viceroyalty. Paraguay refused to join the United Provinces and fought both Spain and the United Provinces (aka. Argentina) to remain independent. For this reason, I think Paraguay can be sensible represented as a revolt against the central power of the United Provinces (aka. Argentina) which wanted all the former colonial provinces of the RĂ­o de la Plata (including Bolivia and Uruguay) to be integrated into their territory.

8

SinĂłnimo de independencia

Además, el antecedente de la Revolución Comunera está ahí

Saludos

1 Like
9

It represents a transition: the Tlaxcalans took the place previously held by the Aztecs in Mexico, representing the indigenous ethnic groups that survived the Viceroyalty of New Spain. Naturally, they are not Aztecs, but they embody the transition that occurred after the fall of the Aztec Empire; the Tlaxcalans were the natives who survived and adapted to the new world. They could also be included as Native Americans in trading posts—albeit in a simplified manner, of course. The goal here is to reinterpret the evolution that took place following the fall of the Aztec Empire, featuring a Tlaxcalan civilization that had largely adapted to the modern era beyond the 16th century.

Furthermore, if we follow the logic of the revolution mechanic, this suggestion fits perfectly; after all, when a civilization undergoes a revolution, the goal is to create a completely distinct new nation. Just as the Netherlands can revolt into Brazil or Indonesia, and the Ottomans into Egypt or Hungary—cases where the cultures are entirely different—the Tlaxcalans would fill the void left by the Aztec Empire as it transitioned into the modern era of the Viceroyalty of New Spain, making this a very logical addition in terms of game mechanics.

2 Likes
10

Just added Tlaxcala on the list as a revolution for the Aztecs :+1:

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11

None of there are worse than Prussia or Warsaw. But this ridiculous list shows exactly why Prussia and Warsaw should never have been revolution options in the first place.

12

I get what you mean, but a revolutionary civ should have its roots in the main civ it revolts from. The Tlaxcalan people did not “evolve” from the Aztecs. They were contemporary.

I understand that you want every civ to be able to modernize their military, but they don’t all need it and it wouldn’t make sense for the Aztecs, because they disappeared at the beginning of the 16th century. Do you think the United states should be able to train pikemen? Of course not, because pikemen were completly outdated by the 18th century.

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If we keep suggesting Revolutions that are complete out of AOE3 timeline such as Republic of China, Russian Republic, Republic of Turkey; the whole list will be void in view of the Devs.**
Just saying.**

14

There is a small detail we are overlooking: the Tlaxcalans were vassals of the Aztecs—sort of an oppressed colony that had to answer to and pay tribute to the Aztecs. In that same vein, Colombia was a Spanish colony that also had to answer to the Spanish Empire and pay its required taxes; that is why they rebelled and gained independence. Well, the exact same thing happened with the Tlaxcalans: they rebelled against the Aztecs with Spanish support and won their independence, managing to cast off the Mexica yoke they had endured for years. So, to return to the original point: the situation in Tlaxcala was an uprising against their Mexica overlords, just as the situation in Colombia was an uprising against the Spanish Empire. Both peoples—the Tlaxcalans and the Colombians—were driven by the same ambition to shake off the yoke of those superpowers. Of course, this is just an example to help you understand why there is nothing wrong with Tlaxcala being an option for a revolution against the Aztecs.

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When you revolt from England to the United States, you can still have pikemen and longbowmen; that is what I am trying to explain to you. It isn’t an evolution; it is a transition or transformation from one ethnic group to another. For instance, Brazilians do not descend from the Dutch, yet the Dutch have that option because they held colonies in Brazil. Similarly, the Aztecs viewed the Tlaxcalans, Tabascans, Tuleños, and other native Mexican tribes as their colonies; the Aztecs were a superpower that had subjugated various tribes—tribes that eventually rebelled to gain their independence. That is exactly what I have been explaining from the start: it is not that I want every civilization to have a revolution mechanic, but rather that it makes perfect sense for Tlaxcala to represent the transition from the Aztec Empire, given that Tlaxcala was the third most important pre-Hispanic power in Mexico after the Aztecs and Mayans.

16

Not true at all. They were never conquered. Do your research.

I was referring to the main civ, not the revolt. My point still stands.

17

Yes, but if you understand Aztecs as smh broader like Nauha people it makes more sense, like Germans includes Austrians

2 Likes
18

Exactly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the transition from Aztecs to Tlaxcalans; on the contrary, it would actually be a significant improvement for the Aztecs.

1 Like
19

Yes, they’re going to work…especially the first one…since we’re playing in Europe, Cromwell’s Commonwealth is necessary (even if it’s exclusive to the British if they’re playing on the England map)…the Russian Republic can be either, or it can be the Soviet Union (although that’s extending the timeline too much, which ends in 1922)…

How could we forget the Ming Indians? xd…

Technically, you already have that in this DLC, but it can be expanded further…

20

Doesn’t need to be tied to an England map. It was a legit, and impact change in British history. A proper professional and disciplined army, and arguably the start of the navy getting stronger. Could also be a way to add in London Lobster cavalry

21

Yes, and the “New Model Army” where you receive Cromwell (as a general) and he buffs the units…