Next civ should be asian

[Shaithias]

The next civ should be an asian civ that is not muslim.

We have 4 christian civs (english, french, rus, hre) and 4 muslim civs (delhi, ottoman, mali, abbasid)
We only have 2 civs that dont fall into the christian/muslim dichotomy. The chinese and the mongols.

Personal fav for next civ? JAPANESE! With a special unit called a ninja that gets a throwing star charge attack, and uses a sword, and does really high damage to villagers/unarmored targets. Also the ronin, and the samurai. Ronin used bows as well as swords, having a knight that has a ranged charge attack, but closes to melee? So good.

Also, samurai could totally get a buff against armoured units. Also spying. Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nerding out over all the cool mechanics a japanese civ could have.

[Infinito6739]

I hope we will have I do not know if the biome shown behind the table of the new sense can be a clue, since even if the colors are changed, it seems there are pink trees, as if it were in Japan

Also because if they added an enchanted biome, it would be strange, since it is a game that is based on historical realism.

[JoinedClover143]

You should first care about whether they make the civs worthy instead of what civs they will add. When they have nothing to do with their historical counterpart, it really doesnt matter what they add apart from the cosmetic side.

[GoldenArmorX]

Oh great, I was expecting this kind of topic.

Yes indeed, in Aoe4 there are many civs that are opting for the Christian and Islamic medieval world. If we opt for type of religion:

• Catholic: 1.English, 2. French, 3.German… I mean, HRE
• Orthodox: 1.Rus
• Islamic: 1.Abbasid caliphate, 2.Delhi Sultanate, 3.Mali, 4.Ottoman empire
• Mahayana Buddhism: 1.China
• Tibetan Buddhism (IV age): 1.Mongols
• Animism (I-III age): 1.Mongols

New Civs to consider:

• Catholic: Spain, Portugal, Rep. of Venice, Rep. of Genoa, Papal States, Italian City States, Hungary, Lithuanian-Polish Confederation, Kingdom of Norway-Denmark/Kalmor Union, Sweden, etc.
• Orthodox: Eastern Roman Empire, Kingdom of Ethiopia, Georgia
• Islamic: Kingdom of Morocco, Al-andalus, Timurid Empire
• Hinduism: Vijayanagara empire, Mahapajit (Indonesia)
• Mahayana Buddhism: Japan, Kingdom of Singapore, Korea (Goryeo+Joseon dynasties), Dai Viet (Vietnam)
• Shintoism: Japan
• Theravada Buddhism: Sri Lanka, Burmese kingdom (Ayutthaya, Ava and Tongou), Cambodia(Khmer), Mahapajit (In syncretism with Hinduism) ________________________________________________________________________________

ABOUT JAPAN:
Honestly, I would like you to complete many civs from the original Age2 first, and to complete the Asian pack, and be able to do campaigns in Korea, Japan and China, that include Japan or Korea.

ABOUT RELIGION IN JAPAN FOR AOE IV:
That is up for debate. In the Middle Ages to the end of the Renaissance (800-1600), the game era, Japan went through several stages. The original main religion, was… "their beliefs", they didn’t have a special name for it, because it was the only one and it was assumed that everyone believed it. This religion became latter known as Shintoism, which means “path of the gods” to differentiate itself from the introduced Majayana Buddhism, which for the #### was something like “atheistic path”.

Shintoism was closely connected to monarchical power, since it was believed that the emperor was a descendant of the goddess Amaterasu (sun goddess), similar to the Incas and Egyptians. However, something curious happened in Japan. In the Kamakura shogunate, a coup caused the emperor to act as the Japanese Pope of Shintoism, while the military king was renamed Shogun. As in Europe, the emperor/Pope was in charge of crowning the shogun/King; in practice the king was the one who dominated the country.

This system in the Middle Ages had 2 dynasties, the Kamakura (1192-1333) and the Ashikaga (1336-1467/1573). However, this system would have a pause when Oda ######## would dethrone the last Ashikaga shogun, which would enter a period of anarchy and civil war, called the Sengoku Wars. Some authors say that the Ashikaga government was so unstable that the sengoku wars started earlier (more or less when the Turks bombed Constantinople) but hey, the point is that Japan entered a civil war, and nobody paid attention to the emperor, who some considered mere decorative figure.

For the supposed 4th age, which I suppose represented the Sengoju wars (1467-1600), Spanish missionaries came to evangelize, and they had great success in many feudal lords and their servants. Although the majority religion continued to be Shintoism, followed by Buddhism.

ABOUT RELIGION IN JAPAN IN AOE III:
But, by the AoE3 game period (1600-1850), Ieyasu made Buddhism the official religion of Japan, declared himself a bodhisata, and ordered the persecution and tortute of Christians followers. Shintoism was allowed to continue being practiced, mainly because the shogun wanted to sell the image of a "nationalist" government (that does everything for the country and against the country’s enemies), and Shintoism, being so old, could not eliminate it, a matter of marketing.

ABOUT RELIGION IN JAPAN IN AOE V?:
The end of his dynasty, at the end of the Aoe3, the United States invaded Japan, which triggered a civil war between pro-royalists and pro-republicans, with the victory of the latter. In the Meiji era, the new government, with Shinto practitioners who had had their beliefs suppressed, began a vengeful persecution of Buddhism, and Shinto became the majority religion in Japan, with hidden Christianity re-emerging in colonies such as Nagasaki and Iroshima.

Why aren’t there so many Christians in Japan? Well, tell me what happened to Nagasaki and Iroshima, the nuclei of the largest number of believers at that time… exactly. On the other hand, having been defeated by “Christians” (USA) in World War 2, many Japanese did not like to consider converting to the enemy religion.

BACK TO THE TOPIC - RELIGIOUS UNIT FOR JAPAN IN AOE4:
Well, the detail is that at least for Aoe4, in the age that you want to portray 800-1650, it would be good to put Shinto monks for the monk’s design. If somebody want to introduce some Japanese Buddhist concept, such as the belief in reincarnation (they introduced the concept to them), let it be in unique technologies.

Kamushi an miko, possible dessign for japanese religious units.

[TheConqueror753]

Can we not base civ selection on religion? Let’s base it on how cool the civ is, but religion should never be a relevant deciding factor on whether or not to include a civ. Sure, it could be a key part of the civ design, or something like that, but civs shouldn’t be selected to balance out a religious distribution.

[Kameho3743]

Enchanted groove? Sounds like a native american civ to me.

[RatcicleFan]

@TheConqueror753

it could be a key part of the civ design,

I’ll have to disagree with this because I hate how AoE3 Asian civs are based around their religion. I’m fine if they have religious units, but the civ should not be the religion. This isn’t AoM.

@Infinito6739

it seems there are pink trees, as if it were in Japan

I don’t mean to burst your bubble, but we have pink trees in South America as well

[GoldenArmorX]

As I showed in my list, in the long run, if they end up doing all the kingdoms I put in, there will always be a majority of Christian kingdoms for the game over all other faiths.

So yes, you are right: There will never be a symmetry in AoE in civs by religion, because that never happened in the middle age, and there is hardly any symmetry now in current countries.

In some cases I thought it would be nice to release some civs in groups like Aoe2DE:

• Italian Civs: Venetians, Papal States, Genoa, Italian City States
• Reconquista: Kingdom of Castila and Aragon (Spain), Portugal, Al-Andalus, Morocco
• Conquerors: Aztecs, Incas, Mapuche, Missisipi?
• Forgotten: Portugal, Ethiopia, Vijayanagara, Sri Lanka

But now I think that is the decision of the game working group, mainly because if they want to make new campaigns, with Documentary and everything, they have to: 1.- coordinate “Travel” to other countries, 2.- that they give them permission to record in ruins, 3.-hire experts to teach them history and do their civ studies for their own campaigns.

Let’s say, if the permits to travel to Spain and Portugal do not come close, the same year. If they for example, obtained a permit for Indonesia that same year, the Majapahapit campaign is easily free released and the pack for Spain is postponed until they release it together with Portugal.

[TheConqueror753]

@RatcicleFan

I’ll have to disagree with this because I hate how AoE3 Asian civs are based around their religion. I’m fine if they have religious units, but the civ should not be the religion.

No, I don’t mind things like the Prelate for example. I’m saying you shouldn’t pick a civ because of it’s religion as the sole deciding factor in most cases. You literally agreed with me, I’m not sure why you think otherwise.

[RatcicleFan]

Ah, the way you described it made me think of AoE3 Japanese, Chinese and Indians

[TheConqueror753]

That’s definitely not intentional, considering I’ve never played AoE3, and as such, wouldn’t know.

[GoldenArmorX]

You mean the fact that in Asian Civs theirs “Scouts” are monks?

Because it annoys me too. THEY ARE MONKS! Why are they fighting? No, wait, another better one: Why have they been given the power to control an army? I think there were better options for explorer. I mean, the Japanese tried to “Colonize” Korea in Hideyoshi’s time, and it’s not like Hideyoshi put a monk in the position of high admiral. And thanks to Age2De:iNDIAN Dynasties I now know that the Chola invaded Indonesia and Sri Lanka, and it’s not like they put a Brahmin as a general of the army.

Sohei Archer, Shaolin Master, Brahmin… they don’t match at all with the colonization and general theme at all… The worst thing is that in the campaigns they show you as a hero: “a japanese general”, “a chinese admiral”, “a hindu rebel officer”. And for the base game? monks.

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Or is it the fact that the Japanese have Shrines instead of houses?
That also bothers me, I mean, THEY ARE SANCTUARIES! they aren’t houses. What were they thinking? I understand the self-production bonus, they are sanctuaries and people leave offerings, which are later collected by the priests… but why are they houses?

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Or is the fact that the temple became an excuse to train military technologies for your warrior monk?
That bothers me too. I mean, THEY ARE TEMPLES! I understand the shaolin temple and martial arts, but developing “stampede of terror” in the hindu temple… well, I leave it for now.

[Kronos8982]

I don’t see why there’s needs to be limits on how many civs can be from a certain religion, race, culture etc, there is just as much diversity within those groups than when compared to others. The Rus for example were very different to English, they were also Orthodox not Catholic. I beileve the civs should be selected base on historical significance and for the potential civ design, the most notable civs missing from that criteria are the Eastern Roman Empire and Vikings, I think something for Italy, either the papacy, or the republics or something is important. But I also think a Mamluk sultanate civ should be considered as well as they were super important and there’s nothing to represent Egypt so far. Don’t get me wrong I think Japan would be an awesome civ and I hope to see them but I don’t understand this anti-western/Christian civ thing I see on the forums. Also I don’t see why Samurai would have a bonus vs armored targets as Japan had notably low amounts of poor quality steel, and armor was not as prevaliant as in other cultures.

[RatcicleFan]

@Kronos8982

this anti-western/Christian civ thing I see on the forums

Nah people just want variety, they’re not hating

[Dodzylla]

I think ronin and samurai would be meaningless, as ronin is a samurai without a “lord or master”. They used the same weapons, armor, and the fighting style was the same more or less. Obviously, there were always some differences between people and “schools” in how they learned to fight, but not that huge.

I know we don’t need historical accuracy here because this is just a game, but I think a different unit would be better.

[Blast9867]

If anyone wants to, check out this poll I made about what next pair of civs you might like to see come next.

[GoldenArmorX]

True, in Aoe3 it was possible that samurai and ronin are 2 different units since there was a mercenary system, and considering how the game was, where mercenaries were dark versions of other units, there was no problem. In fact, it made sense, because the shipping system justified that a ronin without a master should now serve a foreigner outside his country.

In Aoe4 instead, the units are linked to a patriotic, national or representative sense of a Civilization, country, kingdom, race, family or culture. A Ronin, a samurai without a lord is not a unit to be created in a barracks for ##### because it would be “contradictory” with the concept of a barracks and the same unit; it’s more for the editor or a campaign unit, maybe like bandits or banished samurai who promise to help you. In fact if you technically recruited a ronin, technically “you” would be his lord, so he would pretty much stop being a ronin, and become a master samurai again.

On the other hand, in Aoe4 there is no concept of buying mercenaries from other civs, or from port shipping, so getting ronins as a non-japan civ wouldn’t make much sense. EXCEPT, if one day they create a GAIA building for mercenaries and among those available on a Japanese map are the ronins, who would have stats and bonuses similar to the Japanese samurai, but different clothes.

[GoldenArmorX]

I don’t think it’s because hating, instead is because “hyping”… hype joke… well, since a civ as asymmetric as the Mali came out, a great hype was born in the community for more civs. There is a great desire for more civ to come out, and sometimes because of the hype, some users look for crazy theories or messages in newspapers hoping for secret codes that will reveal more info about more civs. This time the excuse or the secret code is to balance the ratio of civs x religion. A month ago many were looking for codes in developer messages for parties, and even on a poster. I even fell for that too, and even thought that incas are coming soon, but instead were the aztecs, and later we discovered that the poster was only a promotional with references of all AoE games, jajajaja.

Mamluk Kingdom of Egypt.- On the other hand, as I understand the Abbasid Caliphate, I think they are also considering the Mamluk Sultanate of Egypt, because they were practically under their protection, and that is the reason why the 4th age civ have cannons.

Samurai Armor.- By 1100-1500 the armor of the samurai was not plate, but it was resistant, enough for arrows and stabs. However, after contact with Europe, mainly the Portuguese and Spanish, the Japanese began to improve their armor with plates, especially those of the nobles, and if there is something revolutionary about it, it is that they created one of the first “bulletproof vests”. for his samurai. They were very resilient, they did that to not lose their unique unit when gunpowder became common, in fact as it was a sengoku era invention, it could be an age IV tech that improves your HP or missile defense massively.

Samurai Sword.- But as regards his sword… you’re right, it wasn’t made to execute strong blows, it was light and for fast cuts, it wasn’t anti-armored, in fact the main reason for its shape was to “divert” swords or spears, where it stood out. So it could not have anti-armor damage, rather the opposite, they would have anti-light bonus. The samurai’s joke as early as the Sengoku period, where they fought mostly unarmed, was to massacre archers, spearmen, and low-armored units en masse. Easy if they give it anti-light infantry(+5), anti-archers(+5) bonus and high attack speed, but under attack (8/10/12), it already has its purpose.

[StatedOregon5]

I think if they add japanese they should add a dynasty system like what the chinese has. Give japan regular archers, spearman and stuff with samurai replacing maa, but then dynasties can start unlocking new units like yabusame horse archer, shinobies that can use stealth and so on.

Just please no houses that gather ressources like in aoe3, however a damyo unit that buffs nearby units wouldnt be a bad idea though, as long as it doesnt function as a mobile barracks/stable and you could unlock damyos from each dynasty achieved.

[Mahazona]

@GoldenArmorX

Kingdom of Singapore

This must be the most interesting civi idea i have ever seen.