Nice job for sneaking nerf reilc

This is IO before this patch

This is IO after this patch

I thought it was a bug or something, so I went to bug report to see if anyone experienced this then I found this in bug report form

What’s really made me dumbfounded was this

Excuse me???
You going to nerf it more further in next patch because you “planing” going to “buff” it?

Ah I get it, You buff Delhi because you going to nerf them hard right?

But why don’t you nerf Mongol hard then buff it back to reasonable?

Also like Chinese ancient technic, you suppose to get 5% gathering boost by each dynasty. It suppose to be 20% boost for all 4 dynastise. However based on my test in gameplay it was like Tang +5% Song +5% Yuan +5% but Ming-5%. So its like nerf into half. ( Now no one wants to get in to Ming cuz its reverse boost for Chinese XD)

Any is everyone know the differences between these two?

I don’t see any differences, isn’t it?


Wow… Just wow. Nerf to IO was so much deserved… not. This is beyond ridiculous, china was already a mediocre civ at its best… IO is limited to 4, it is easily sniped while Delhi scholar is garrisoned and unlimited in number… This is a definition of bad balancing XD


This is ridiculous. I think you should go to the BUG thread. “Ancient technology” technology I think is new bug.


Wait what is this for real?

Yeah thats it. Not bothering with the game anymore ever. Already uninstalled after I saw the patch notes for the game and decided to wait few months to see whats going to happen, but if they did this then Im done with this. Truly incompetent devs


I can see it now, next patch:

Imperial Officials will be sitting in a chair and require to be carried by two villagers in order to move. The villagers can then set them down, but doing so will reduce the IO’s effectiveness from 200% to 150%. The effectiveness will then slowly degrade over time until the IO is picked up again by two villagers.
Maximum of IOs reduced from 4 to 2.

Developer commentary : “Chinese players were making use of their Imperial Officials. This reduced the flexibility of the civ, which is why we decided to make using IOs more involved as well as less viable. Hopefully this will force the Chinese players to explore new strategies”

Meanwhile in the same patch:

Mongol starting food reduced by 2
Mongols now start the game in the feudal age


You forgot to mention


Buff to berries gather rate by 500% and amount of berries in bushes increased to infinity

Dev notes: “We’ve noticed that delhi players are gathering meat from sheep and we do not like this because we like delhi to eat berries only and let elephants stomp over sheep and eat them later on so we decided to buff berries”


disappointed by devs


Please don’t put words in my mouth and please do be patient. I will make sure the balance team sees all of your feedback.


Pls dont make a change too late. This game needs to regain players’ trust.


Fine Tuned Guns is on a Landmark. Landmark choices tend to be superior, because you have to choose between them.

Supervise is a different thing entirely.


That’s fair, but like I mentioned—I’m sure the exclusion in the notes was completely unintended. That team sees and knows way more than I do, so I recommend we all be patient and trust that changes made were made for a reason. Little incremental changes are much easier to track and will lead to much better results in the long run.


While I might be completely wrong but they buffed mongol scouts and gave them the khan’s hawk ability. Never seen scout doing it before so if im wrong im wrong.

Most parts they lost my trust when they did the nerfs without compensation buffs and even further to rabbit hole when they made changes that were not in patch notes

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Yeah yeah, be patient until there is no one playing this game


I can promise you have been heard…I am happy to leave this thread open for discussion regarding balance features you’d like to see, but you are only making my life harder by continuing to beat a dead horse (also the horse might have something to say). I could simply stop responding, but I do want you all to know that your comments are important.



but looking at the other posts its a load of emotional knee jerking, i dont think they want to hear reason.


Hear what?
Reason for Mongol that should be dominating Tier S? and very slow reaction to those hilarious bugs?
Reason for sneaking change?
Reason for all of this?

Don’t forget Reload drill also on a landmark you not able to research it before impieror age , it just not match its cost since it got nerfed. All same effect, all require Impieror age, but for what reason it could cost double and 30sec more than Rus?)

And it were some ppl in this forum was “load of emotional knee jerking” first for some hilarious reasons.(Like keeping saying Chinese OP even got nerfed meanwhile still thinking mongol needs buff)

No, Choose between them still cannot explain why it have the same effect but Chinese version are more expansive.

Okay I on that note to swing it into a more productive direction:
I get the idea that you over there (balance team) have no idea what to do with fishing, just knowing that fishing (especially on hybrid maps) seems to be a problem and puts the gameflow way too much on rails (you have to fish or you lose).

I think the main issue here isn’t fishing itself, but that it’s so safe that you need around 15 archers or towerracing after his dock placement on rivermaps to block it.
Maps like Nagari should still have an emphasis on fishing, but the issue I see on confluence, danube and mongolian heights is that it’s just way too safe to dash forward and build a dock into the center of the map cause of said reasons.

My suggestions would be:
-highly convinced no healing by docks anymore while units inside the healcircle are in combat
-convinced fishing ships should take more damage by Archers or should have less HP
-slightly convinced fishing ships shouldn’t be able to garrison

Those changes should make Nagari and Boulder Bay still fishing heavier but adress core hybrid river maps like confluence and mongolian heights to have more land than water focus.

Based on these changes you can buff fishing/reduce fishing ship costs again if needed, since the changes you do so far is just pushing fishing eco scaling a little bit deeper into the game without taking the risk/reward situation in the beginning into consideration.

You need mechanical changes to make forward docking a high risk thing and something you do behind a push rather than the first thing you do with little to no risk involved since you need towers + garrisoning + right clicking manually on ships to be able to deal dmg to them.

Speaking of which, can we please stop making buildings and rams utter arrow magnets?
Towers/Keeps/TC should have attack prior on anything above buildings.
Manually having to retarget them every single time a unit gets in range is just bad gameplay wise.



Firstly thank you for showing up.

Now to business. “we’ve been heard” is something that every company states and has no meaning unless the words are something that can be delivered and your statement is only one developer out of many. These statements have been thrown to players many times and many times they’ve been broken.

If we have been heard then show it to us. Show that AOE4 developers are true to their word, because so far they’ve not been. Reference to statement “we’d like to buff things instead of nerffing if possible” yet many things contradict this statement. Siege could been easily nerffed by creating more counter play by buffing units vs siege and this same statement applies to firelancers and it would’ve not affected anything else than the one unit type or unit.

Issue list after latest patch:

  1. Unrecorded changes. We players ARE NOT testers and we deserve to know what is changing in game that we paid for and we most certainly shouldn’t be forced to start second guessing official patch notes. As of now I have seen 2 changes that were not announced.
    -Imperial officer supervision nerffed from 200% to 150%
    -Mongol scouts can use Khan hawk ability (not 100% sure if this was before but today was first time seeing it)

  2. Developer statements about changes makes no sense. Abbasid & Delhi both got berries buffed which would be fine if both civs deserved the buff. Abbasid maybe, but delfi NOT!. Why the heck buff a civ thats already top tier civ and performing extremely well? Who cares if its going to get nerffed in month or two months because its NOT NOW.

  3. Siege changes. These changes were widely asked by players from various elo areas and siege deserved tuning but how it was done was over the top. Balance isn’t something that should be changed dramatically in one patch and yet siege units were nerffed EVERY possible way. Only thing that wasn’t nerffed was their actual dmg but even developer statement says they gonna poke them in future.

  4. Targetted nerf to chinese civ for clockwork. This is another overshoot. China WAS at all elo ranges and team modes mid tier civilization and not top tier pick EVER and this is backed by statistics. Global siege nerf hurt china most out of all civilizations and would’ve balanced out their late game, but the targetted nerf made the civilization worst civ in history of AOE4. Especially when not a single compensation buff was presented to fix the lack of power that china lost. Then the fact that many users on these forums exaggerated how siege was used. I head so many ppl saying “its not fun to play against +30 bombards” or some other ridiculous numbers and my own experience I have NEVER seen single player doing this kind of numbers of siege and I got +1300 games played and I have watched tens if not hundreds of pro / high elo games and NEVER seen such comp used ever. Yes siege need adjustment, especially chinese, but not without compensation buffs AND slow adjustment of siege over time.

  5. For month now Delhi been rising to top tier civ and Mongol been there for months now yet delhi wasn’t addressed in latest patch in anyway other than buffed which is wrong approach and mongol has received “small” nerfs here and there yet in fairness Chinese civilization was completely swiped under the rack in single patch. Exact same thing happened with firelancers. I do understand the firelancers needed to change and it would’ve been good change if firelancers were more easily available. Now they have no use because they’re too expensive invest and offer very little use and lancers can simply do same thing.
    In both these cases it was TG & lower elo players who were VERY vocal about it on forums and developers clearly listened, but didn’t consider what changes would mean to civ.

  6. Too slow to address bugs and exploits. There is STILL multiple bugs and exploits that been left completely untouched for months and yet another month passes and no fixes. Here is some for you
    Nest of bees - cannot shoot in water crossings, shot is cancelled when target dies or moves out of range
    IO - Bugs out and doesn’t go to supervision when told to if they got gold in their pocket
    Relics - Players can place multiple relics into buildings that got limit on how many relics they can hold. Applies to all civs that got such building


man, did you listen for BeastyQT comments and think that he knows?

Fish changes - the greatest of the patch, soft change, but real nerf.
for lakes without deep fish → you can not build 20+ boats for small lake. (because it’s twice less food… you invest 1000wood to get 3000food…earlier it was 1k to 6k it’s huge)
For rivers → either rebuild dock or effectiveness will drop significantly.
It’s very accurate and great nerf of fishing.

Checkout SOTLs video to learn “how number of fish affect effectiveness, investments into docks + boats”
\How good are fishing ships on Black Forest? (AoE2) - YouTube
(yes, it’s for aoe2 but principals the same… if you want calculate yourself for aoe4)