As seen in the strings, we can see that not a single mission of the “3 kingdoms” DLC actually take place during the 3 kingdoms period (220 - 280 AD). They supposedly all end with the battle of the Red Cliffs, and don’t actually show when any of the kingdoms were established. And yes, while a lot of the “Romance of the 3 kingdoms” takes place before the 220, there is still plenty of material that can be shown past Red cliffs and post the formation of the 3 kingdoms.
After hearing it was 5 levels per campaign, I thought it was way too short for the Three Kingdoms, even when focusing only on Cao Cao and Liu Bei. These people fought many more battles after Chibi! Why not make the campaign a bit longer? And what’s worse, the final level will most likely be the exact same layout, but playing as a different faction.
Yeah, same map 3 times (I assume) but is there really much value in having both a Liu Bei and Sun Quan perspective? You’d think Cao Cao and either Liu Bei or Sun Quan would be enough given each campaign only has 5, having 3 on the same map under these circumstances seems like it would be rather repetitive.
And yes of course, there is much more to tell after Red Cliffs!
I’ve been making a Cao Cao custom campaign since last december using the already existing Chinese (absolute terrible timing) and the last mission occurs after Red cliffs. Sorry to shamelessly plug there but I thought it might be a bit relevant.
If it were up to me, I’d make a 3K campaign as follows:
First, two prologue levels where you play as Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Sun Jian: Yellow Turban Rebellion and Coalition versus the Big Dong.
Then, there would be a branching path of sorts, where you choose Wei, Wu or Shu, and of course the story goes far after Chibi. But, after the deaths of Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Sun Quan, I’d probably devote less scenarios to the story.
And then all these paths converge into one last chapter: Sima Yi and his clan, and the end of the 3K.
Also, I’ll be looking forward to that campaign, I really like what you put out!
Definitley a nice way to do it, I agree with devoting at least a little bit of time maybe to Zhuge Liang’s exploits as well if that’s what you were reffering too. And Sima Yi and the end of 3k is pretty integral to the message of the story even if a lot of media tries to ignore it. It’s definitely cool to have branching paths too.
Thanks a lot! i’ve already uploaded a demo scenario of the campaign which is the battle of Guandu. Campaign is about 75% done. But i’ll avoid posting any spoilers here about the campaign mission structure, although you could probably figure it out.
Yes, those should be the last parts of the Shu campaign, before the player switches perspective to play as Zhuge Liang’s enemies in the form of Sima Yi and co.
I got that the history after the three kingdoms were established is much less popular, but at least give the story a proper ending.
It is unnecessary to include every battle, but compress a period into a single long scenario, like they did in the second-to-last and finale of the Athenian campaign, or the Sicilian finale, etc.
If I’m the designer for the Shu campaign, the last 3 scenarios will be:
(WARNING: SPOILER)
Third-to-last scenario: "Battle of Red Cliff”
Second-to-last scenario: “Into the Shu”, in the first half, player will conquer the southern Jingzhou, after that Guan Yu will leave the team and stay in Jingzhou for defence. Then the player will attack the Yi State/Bashu. The scenario ends with the battle of Chengdu. Then the Shu Han established, Wu betrays you and take Jingzhou, then the beginning of the Battle of Xiaoting/Yiling.
Finale: “Northern Expedition”, compresses the entire history of Shu Han into an epic finale, starting with the aftermath of the Battle of Xiaoting/Yiling, where Zhuge Liang takes charge. Like the Sicilian finale, you could choose a Wonder victory or defeat Wei/Jin. With side quests of allying with/seeking vengeance on Wu, southern expedition into Yunnan, etc. Different ending will depend on what you choose (Wonder or defeat Wei), and how many side quests you complete, etc.
It’s just so much wasted potential if it ends with Red Cliff.
100% agree with everything you said here. Exactly how I would have made it, which I was planning on doing but probably not going to anymore.
In fact I’m more curious about how the other warlords will be represented, if they ever make their appearance. Generic Chinese? That would be hilarious.
See that’s why I think three kingdoms as “civs” don’t even fit very well within a three kingdoms setting.
Probably not unless half the tech tree is cut, as it’s before gunpowder. And even the chu ko nu was invented during the period.
I’d assume they would only use the 3k civs for the all the players in the campaign, but if not I think they might be able to use Jurgens, Khitans, possibly Mongols.
Well this is nitpicking. Everyone who reads a bit of 3K literature/history knows that the most interesting stories happened before 220, with the peak being Battle of Red Cliffs (208). Cao Cao died in 220 and Sun Jian died way before that.
So in China we are used to calling this period “the end of the Han Dynasty and the Three Kingdoms（漢末三國）”.
In fact, it stands to reason that the problem is not big, but considering the background of Age of Empires 2, the difference between the end of Han Dynasty and 476 AD is even more outrageous.
Khitans, yes, to serve as a nomadic threat. Jurchens rely too much on gunpowder, and Mongols are unlikely due to being such a wrecking ball 1000 years later.
Using the Huns (possibly with east asian buildings) for the Xiongnu too.
Maybe the Japanese for coastal raiders ?
Great take!
I’d also include Zhuge Liang’s Southern Expedition — it brings a unique thematic flavor with the campaign against the southern tribes.
Now you made me realize something even funnier:
If the campaign ends with the Red Cliff, before Liu Bei moved southwest and entered Sichuan (the “Shu” province), they were not even the “Shu” faction, while their UU the white feather guard has a strong southwestern minority vibe.
I’d just add the entire Dynasty Warrior’s campaign with the musou power up after defeating 1000 enemies alone.
Maybe this is only the beginning of a series…? But as something based on a 13th-century novel rather than the official history itself, I’d prefer it to be separated in some way from the historical campaigns. Which sometimes also incorporate legends, but not to the point of heroes quasi-using magic.
Suddenly, an official King Arthur campaign featuring Merlin as an actual magician doesn’t appear so unlikely anymore. No, I don’t want so see that, at least not next to the “normal” campaigns.
Considering that AoE2’s Campaign release pace is relatively low (although its a very healthy and reasonable pace) I would rather not have that effort for the 3K
I feel very robbed by the lack of Jurchen, Chinese and Khitan campaigns. We could’ve had Wuzhu, Yue Fei and Yelü Dashi. But no, the same story will be told in all 3 campaigns with a recycled last scenario.
We haven’t had a proper campaign for 1.5 years. Waiting is eternal.
