I used this example because the members of the Iron Confederacy were roughly the same distance away from the Comanche as Ashgabat is from Shanghai. To try and put these people into a single civ would be insulting. They were never united as a people, never united by a culture, never united by an empire, never even shared common languages from the north to the south. The region is about as related as the Sinosphere, but perhaps even less so.
The tipi and the bison may have been commonalities between a large portion of these people, but boats and fishermen are common to all coastal people in the world - the tipi were the boats and the bison were the fish. The people of the prairie navigated using stars - the great plains were not so different from attempting a voyage out on the high seas. Getting marooned out there without a horse was all but a guarantee of death. Even the prairie nations didn’t make their homes directly on the prairies - the Cheyenne lived along the Rockies, the Shoshone in the Great Basin, the Lakota centered on the Missouri and the Black Hills, the Comanche, the Rio Grande and the Rockies, the Iron Confederacy in the boreal forests of the north. The prairies were not a sustainable place to live without a “home base” to return to routinely.
They are all in Asia. Then you can read my stance on a common Asian civilization again.
The prairie nations are not be the same, but they have only one civilization, present and possible future. If you don’t want to rename, you can try to reduce the amount of non-Lakota content a bit (by sth like renaming cards and units) to make it more in line with its name, but it’s really hard to entirely change the essence of a civilization’s gameplay or make it 100% Lakota. I’d say compromise sometimes wins more because updates are easier to make and roll out when you’re not asking for that much change. Too much and it’s easy to cause backlash, making these changes less likely to happen, and even if they do, you may still be dissatisfied and continue to demand.
Why don’t you reorganize and share your previous suggestions for unit names and card names again? I remember those were good and got replies from a member of the dev. Starting with an aspect that is more prone to change has a better chance of achieving it than desiring 100% and even one more civ from the start. And more importantly, don’t let the mind of gains and losses too strong, don’t worry about gain and loss. Constantly letting yourself down with the dev doesn’t help anything.
Asking for Native Americans at all on this forum causes backlash. The Age 4 subforum was rather explicit in their wish that no Natives be there and the Age 2 subforum is explicit in their wish for none.
Regardless of what I ask, a fairly substantial chunk of this playerbase will oppose it on the grounds of it being Native American.
My stance on that is to ask for what I want rather than trying to find a compromise with a community that would rather see Native Americans removed or never included in the first place.
Because I realized the community doesn’t care and all the devs did was rename existing techs. That does not fix the problem, that is simply adding another layer of bandaids over the initial problem.
The so-called compromise here should be that asking for less is more rewarding than asking for too much, rather than forcing you to accept the less and less Native American content (which most likely did not happen). If you want as much content about Native Americans as possible, that’s a realistic option, rather than making it too tough to let update you desiring happen.
The AoE2 and AoE4 are the games about the Middle Age, not due to people’s personal likes and dislikes of Native Americans. Not to mention that I do see quite a few people in their community who are actively campaigning for more Native American content, mainstream opinion or not. The truth is not what you say it is.
Just renaming units, techs, cards, or re-skinning units and buildings, can improve the accuracy of Asian civilizations by at least 20% in my opinion. Is this bad?
That fixes problems quite well, unless you only ever care about 100%.
“Lower your standards.” Not happening. The devs want to use my culture as a marketing point for their game, I’m going to hold them to their promise. I’m tired of corporations using my culture and heritage to make money while offering absolutely nothing of value with what they create.
Ah, yes. I forget, Native Americans didn’t exist until white people met us.
That’s the Asian civs. I have never stated that my wish for the reworks of the Hauds and Lakota take priority or said that reworking the other, older civs in the game is less important - I simply do not push for them because the rest of the player base is pushing for them. I have said I want India to be divided into three nations in a fashion similar to my idea here - that’s actually where this idea came from - and I’d personally like to see Russia given some freshening up and Portuguese to receive a heavier rework. I simply don’t talk about it because other players already are and adding my voice to that doesn’t help when there are others more knowledgeable on the issues with those specific civs.
I don’t care when or in what order the Hauds and Lakota get a proper rework, only that it does happen.
No one is 100 accurate. No one will be 100% accurate. It’s a game.
They also use European, Asian and African cultures and traditions, which is no different.
However, the truth is, there is still value.
I’m sure there are a lot of people who can’t tell the difference between Native Americans and don’t know about Native American culture before coming into this game. Of course the game isn’t as perfect for expressing these differences and cultures (also not perfect for Europeans, Asians and Africans), but it succeeds in getting some people as interested in your culture and history as they are in European, Asian and African culture and history.
Nobody thinks so.
Even if someone doesn’t want Native American content due to any other reasons, nobody thinks so.
Your sarcasm here is very inappropriate.
But maybe it’s because some people would attack people who were examining Medieval Native Americans like that, people didn’t want to get in trouble, so they felt that putting Medieval Native Americans aside would be a different kind of benefit for the game.
My point is that this will improve Asians by 20%, which is a good thing. Why don’t you think this has also a benefit to Native Americans as well? Wouldn’t you like to see a 20% improvement happen?
A 20% improvement wouldn’t even bring them up to the quality of the Germans. They’d be about as accurate as the Black Family Estate is at representing the British.
It’s not enough. It’s so little, it might as well not be done.
I’ve seen multiple people complain about AoE2 having native american civs. I can’t imagine any other reason for that than them thinking native americans didn’t exist until shortly before Europeans met them (or that the natives weren’t relevant until they met Europeans, which isn’t a much better argument). I’m not accusing you of doing this, but people that do definitely exist.
I’ve even seen suggestions for an Hawaiian civ be questioned because “it’s a US state”.
Just because you’re trying to be logical about it, doesn’t mean everyone else is.
These people ought to be punished for their willful ignorance.
Unfortunately there are quite a few HDPs who do think this way, and they disgust me.
Wait, the developers are not responsible, if the owners of the company gave them enough budget and committed to giving adequate representation to the civilizations, we would all benefit.
After such a long discussion, I seem to see a starving man, who always constantly calculates that he is one apple or two less than others who are also starving. Although many people was willing to suggest him how to get a few apples, instead of appreciating and encouraging, he even rejects and complains. Just because it’s not a cart of apples he thinks he was promised.
In fact, however, no one has a cart of apples, while in reality it is hard, almost impossible to have a cart of apples. Like everyone else, what he was promised is actually to keep giving him some apples to help improve his starvation, not a cart of apples.
As long as he keeps refusing the chances to get apples, I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t end up with more apples. He himself is the one who kept him starving, and I can only respect his decision.
I’ve also seen Eurocentrists in the AOE2 forums, but it’s certain that their opinions have never been mainstream, scorned by the public there. Even those who have a stricter stance on and may raise objections to American civilizations, most of them still respect their history and culture.
As I stated, the fact is that there are still quite a few people fighting for Native American content. We shouldn’t just care about the ignorant few and ignore the logical majority whether they are supporters or opponents.
The problem with this is that you only care about Lakota/Haudenosaunee when this game isn’t just about native Americans. We get it you feel prideful about your culture as Native American. BUT you need to remember that Devs only have limited resources AND there are other cultures to think about ( like Asian whose representation is just as bad if not worse than Native Americans).
They don’t need many resources to even implement good changes tho? It really would not be that hard to make the natives accurate.
Over other civs? Definitely NOT. Asians are more urgent than Natives. When has they received a new civ? You will find they NEVER did since the lunch of DE.
Yes, that the Asian civs, except perhaps the Japanese,are designed like ■■■■, we all know that…but for that we can make constructive criticisms and improve them to where they are supposed to be…
Yes, I wouldn’t have said it better…
Yes, the original native civs seem that ES made them for making them and already…
Literally read a few comments before your post. I address this. Everyone keeps bringing up points I already addressed.
My point is that you can’t expect Devs to focus solely on Native American civs when there are plenty of other civs they can be working on. To you lakota/ Haudenosaunee might be most important but to others ( like me) other civs are more important.
I’m not. Again, read a few comments back from your initial comment. I literally address that.