It’s all very well for Devs to say the zoom level is fine and they don’t think it needs changing, but considering the whole community seems to want a “bit of extra zoom out” then maybe we can make this argument more objectively.
Usually data is collected during beta, one such piece of data which may be useful to look at is the zoom level used throughout each and every game.
I would assume that this data could be quite easily taken from several recorded games of Aoe4.
Furthermore, with a small email to the Age3 teams (an apt comparison use case because of 3D nature of the camera) similar data could be taken from many Age3 games.
With this data one could make histograms and interpret their distribution:
The x-axis could be normalised either by distance to the ground, or better yet the relative screen size % of a town centre at that zoom.
By simply looking at the distribution, you’d be able to tell whether or not you needed a little extra zoom-out capability.
I ask the Devs to perform this analysis, and inform their zoom-level game design choices on data rather than subjective feelings of what is appropriate. It’s not a game for the team at relic who have simply gotten use to the zoom in its current state, its a game for the whole world.
tldr: If the Devs think that the zoom level is appropriate in its current state despite it being a primary concern of the community, I request they prove it with a simple data analysis.
Idk how you can interpret your plot like you did in your exemple. If they think their max zoom is perfect, then your second graph can be interpreted like if it’s the best zoom (which is a wrong interpretation of the plop but not more wrong than yours ^^).
The idea being is that you want a zoom that caters to the most peoples preference, some people might like it a tad more zoomed in or out, or change it on the fly depending on the situation throughout the game.
Thus if the distribution of zoom preferences is centred below the max-zoom, then you could say that the maximum zoom caters to the majority of use cases.
Alternatively, the distribution could be skewed to be centred on the max zoom - this doesn’t mean that ‘most people want to play at max zoom’ this means people who want to zoom out more simply cannot, and are being forced to play at a zoom that is uncomfortable.
i.e. you want a distribution where no one or maybe 10% of people play at max zoom. If everyone is playing at max zoom, then the game simply cannot zoom out far enough.
Most arguments going on here all stem back to the lacking of actual public in-game footages. When the devs say the current zoom level is fine, either we have no idea what actual in-game zoom level they’re basing their comments on, or those have an idea cannot talk about it.
But it is impossible to prove to anyone that the current zooming is fine or needs adjustments without any actual dynamic footages in game, which we don’t have any publicly.
Given I just explained the stats and how useful they would be in giving an objective measure of the current state of zoom, I’ll need more than ‘they’re useless’.
Regarding distracting the team - I can assure you there is an entire teams job is the interpret the data gathered from the beta, and that this sort of thing is part of it.
I have no intention of doing this analysis myself, nor is it for and against the devs, I simply want to communicate to the devs via this forum that there exists valid and data driven analysis that can be used as a tool to inform the current major issue (zoom levels) where there is disparity between the community and devs.
This is not what show the plot, this is ONE interpretation of the plot, the only thing you can conclude on your second plot is :
“based on the degree of zoom we have, most peaple prefere the 100% zoom”.
Tbh they don’t need this kind of data, during the beta, zoom problematic was the most important topic by far, so if the purpose of the beta is to listen their community, they are pretty much forced to do something about zoom, otherwise, the beta would have been a waste of time (at least, the section on feedback).
Histograms? Analysis? Informing game design choices? Sweet Jesus, they are unequivocal: they know better than us, and we can either get used to it or get out.
Genuinely confused what kind of analysis you think you’re going to get that would be useful. I would imagine everyone playing the beta would’ve just been playing at the default 100% zoomed out view the whole time, except for occasional moments of wanting to zoom in to look at something in more detail. That’s the way most players play RTS games like this - with the exception of large scale ones like SupCom where you do zoom in and out - due to the nature of the map, game and unit count.
I would imagine exactly the same thing, however comparing aoe4 histograms that to the histograms of zooms in aoe2 and aoe3, standardised to town-centre screen% for example, may provide insight into the issue.
Data driven game design is an important tool that can be leveraged when otherwise subjective measures are being made, and can be particularly important in such a case where the community has made such a big deal about a feature.
Unfortunately you can’t do something like this on something like art-style - as that is truely subjective, however zoom level is data fair game.
i don’t really dynamically adjust the zoom in the middle of online RTS matches. the games are happening too fast for me to do stuff like that
i just find a level that works for me and play almost the whole game on it
if the zoom level is not wide enough to play the game and i’m being asked to hotkey camera locations to keep up, then i probably just won’t play it
like they still made a game about making houses for population space. in 2021. it’s such an archaic design, but i need a hotkey just for doing that. then i need hotkeys for a bunch of other mindless tasks too
there just ends up being no physical space for hotkeys like camera locations. if i have to move my hand very far and precisely hit faraway keys (like function keys) to control the camera, that’s too much. i’m fine with those things existing for people who like to play that way, but if it becomes necessary, i’ll just play something else
Mmm… sadly, i don’t have any news about the stats of the closed beta, about the zoom.
(Moment of silence)
…
I so know that age of empire team areworking on zoom in some update preview…
I got to the update preview of age of empire 3, i almost cryed of happiness…
I was waiting for this for years.
I could actualy see 85% of the batle field, of 2 platoon.
Just a bit more and i could of see the intire batle of my 3 platoon.
It made my day.
The new zoom option, in age of empire 3, give more playability and happiness to see a nice figth, insted of having to run to each litle platoon batle, and see nothing.
Was joyfull to see.
Now i can go to sleep happy.
I will now go see my girl sleep well, befor i join my wife in her sleep.
