I’ll go straight to the point and say that IMO they are WAY too cheap and need a nerf, they were designed to cost 5w, but that’s with the pillars and EVERYONE deletes it(if you didn’t know, you can delete it with no consequence, but that trick makes the walls cost way less than it was originally designed).
My suggestion is to remove pillars from the game entirely, improving a bit the QOL(you won’t have to delete then anymore, or risk gaps) make the wall cost double (10w) and take double the time to build so it compensates for that change.
On the same note, the stone/upgraded walls needs to cost more, on AOE2 they cost stone, a rare resource, so they are not spammable like they are on AOE3. My suggestion is making it cost 10w + 4g , keep it’s building time, and make the bastion upgrade scale accordingly(increase 4g for each wall segment already built).
What are your thoughts on this matter? Agree or disagree? Give your opinions.
An idea that could improve this situation is to have two different types of walls.
Palisades, which cost 3-5 wood, are available since Age I.
Stone Walls which require a church technology, cost 5-10 wood and 3-5 gold, are available for some civs in Age II(with a politician or HC card) and for all civs in Age III and are much stronger than palisades.
In my honest opinion Walls are fine at this moment. What is abusable. Is the deleting pilar stuff. Either make walls cost 10 wood and remove the pilar out of the game or Force players to use pilars. That is the thing that could be changed.
I agree with the cost increase to 10 wood, doubling the build time and removing the pilar, it was one of my suggestions. But you think the upgraded walls are fine?
They are really strong right now, as they should be, but then being spammable is NOT good for the game IMO.
I’ll repeat myself here, in AOE2 they are much less accessible(cost stone) but on AOE3 you can make several layers with no real consequence, and to make this worse, on AOE3 the resources are infinite so there is not much incentive to go out of the base later in the game, making turtling even harder to punish, making the game VERY slow. I think it needs to cost gold.
Nowadays the most effective way of beating it is the abysmal Trade Monopoly win, that we both agree needs to change…but with upgraded walls the way they are now, it can’t go.
You have to keep in mind that AOE2 has limited resources, while AOE3 has infinite resources. Spaming walls is fine due to infinite canons coming. Have to keep that in mind
While AOE2 does have different walls. You can’t really wall forever but your opponent can’t really keep sending siege units forever. So in both sides it is fair.
Nerfing walls more will make them so weak that the turtle style will be affected. We can’t have the game be decided only in 1 fight which is currently what is happening. Doing army lose 1 single fight lose entire game. What kind of RTS is that[ my opinion though ]
Trade monopoly could be changed to a buff I suggested it before. Something like giving you much more siege damage? weakening opponents defenses? Making opponents army/vills cost more? Blocking cards while monopoly is on? Whatever the buffs. It is something that gives you much more advantage at wining. Than just giving you the win right away
You place down a long layer. Or 1 by 1 for it to be more effective without leaving holes. Then have a hotkey set to Select all units of the same type in my case [ C ] I select pilar then press C and I can delete all pilars and save the 5wood for each while having a good wall that will block anything coming through
All players that are good, abuse this one trick where they delete pilars.
I definitely think Walls could have a rework where the price would be increased not to 10 but maybe 8 and removing pilars out of the game
You have to keep in mind that AOE2 has limited resources, while AOE3 has infinite resources. Spaming walls is fine due to infinite canons coming. Have to keep that in mind
I think that counts against your argument, infinite resources removes the need to get out of the base, on AOE2 even if the siege vs siege + walls end up on stalemate the turtling player will eventually need to get out, try to claim new territory or starve, he will never be able to sustain a late-game army for long while sitting on base like it’s possible on AOE3.
That’s the main reason walls should be more expensive. Turtling can last forever on AOE3.
The only way to break it (besides the terrible trade monopoly win) is with culvs + mortars, and the defender has a very big advantage there as well, since due to the buildings the defender will always see the attackers culvs earlier.
I’m not trying to kill the turtling style, I’m just trying to make it fairer and less annoying, I don’t think my suggested changes are so aggressive that will kill walls, let’s remember that the pillar-deletion-trick makes the wall cost 3x less than it should, I’m suggesting to just doubling it, so that it would still be cheaper than the original intention
And for the upgraded ones, IMO 10w 4g cost is fair, they give an enormous amount of protection for only 5w, several layers of it should give a bigger hit to the economy than it does currently.
I think reworking the current wall system so that pilars are no longer there at all or just forcing us into using them [ which is less likely ].
I feel like a rework for the walls could be beneficial while being cautious about it. A game should not be about making a ton of army and within 1 slit. lose it entirely. Because the current meta. Micro matters the most.
Wall should be changed so that a wall segment can only be constructed if it touches atleast on finished pillar. This way still every second pillar could in theory be removed but the micro necessary would be very intensive and prpalby not worth it.
Then the wall upgrade could be changed so that it also increases the cost off walls. But then there are also cars to increase walls hp.
Better if walls cost 1 wood peer 1000 health points plus a constant offset value so that the initial cost is unchanged to be 5 but increases slightly with stronger walls.
Trade monopoly wins are the most unfun game mechanic I have ever seen. It ruins a good and fun ingoing match. There must be a better way to bonus that eco boosts the team having the monopoly so they gain more and more of an advanateg but not instantly win or get unbeatable. Something like +50% gather rates.
When a game receives patches it is also meant to have changes within game and balance causing new metas.
Now when a game is close to good balance for all aspects not just a few, What usually works for competitive is the defensive/turtle/macro plays as Aggression pays little to nothing. And it can be seen on today’s top E-sports worthy games.
If we aim for aoe3 to be more balanced [ Because right now it is not ] At one point we will definitely see defensive play more often and as something annoying but it is not annoying. If you don’t have the nerve and time to play out that game then you may resign. Because a game should not be of 1 slide mistake and losing the complete game without 0 chances of coming back
Yes to this. Losing a game in 5 minutes yikes. Please rework this mechanic
IMO they could make pillars cost 0, build fast, 0-line of sight, and double cost of wall segments. segment deleting is just ugly.
Overall I do agree walls are annoying, and multiple layers of walls with culverins behind them make me want to stop playing forever. However, if walls are actually made to be expensive enough that people stop spamming them, there will likely be some negative repercussions in the late game. The balance of HP, speed, and siege of many units make walls pretty essential. While it’s annoying to dig through 3 layers of walls, it’s even more annoying to have 10 oprichniks (or any kind of cav unit) running directly into your base.
? But this suggested change is mainly to reduce the effectiveness of the turtling style which is prevalent on AOE2. If anything I’m arguing against turning it into AOE2.
I just brought up AOE2 stone walls coz I think the same logic they used to limit it there should be used, makes sense, and it’s even more important for the AOE3 fast-paced design, that’s all.
Walling in Age 3 is different than walling in Age 2.
In age 2, walling is made to gain map control. The opposite happens in Age 3.
If the player in age 3 hides behind walls, the enemy can just expand all over the map and get resources. Doubling or tripling its economy.
As a matter of fact, in a 1 vs 1, it is always the losing player than is forced to wall. If you weaken the walls, you cut the chance of the player that is behind to stay in game or to come back into the game.
