Has OTD changed since it’s release??? I think not. Besides its improved units there is nothing else appealing. I know it is famous in the lower leagues but the gameplay is very vanila and boring. I wish they add some cool things like vlad the impaler, a hero joining in castle age. Or some cool mechanic like field hospitals which heal units out of combat. This will make it compleate as is now I cant say that I will play it much.
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They feel unique with its “quality over quantity” mechanic but do agree there’s not a ton else different from HRE. Though at its release of variants those ones weren’t too drastically different from their original civs. I.e. Jeanne similar to French but has a hero, ayyubids similar functionality as Abba. Compared to the new variant civs where they are running in the opposite direction as their original version i.e. all the new variants they just released
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Yes, both the HRE and the OotD feel very meh… I liked the HRE at launch, but since the anniversary edition there are infinitely better civilizations… they should give the HRE more love by adding some more UUs (like the Hussite Wagon or the Bavarian Villager/Ox Cart), and the same goes for the OotD…
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In fairness they added the black raider to HRE but OTD still nothing.
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I would say a black rider with ootd stats would be top powerful? They already have to have a cap to each keep under HRE
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They feel dumb, why on earth it’s units are bigger? Is this a fantasy game where we play with some Giants? This is the reason I cannot play aoe IV, even if it has good stuff like Byzantines… lest not even talk about MOBA Jean
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Would differentiating the landmarks more from HRE help better? Or in general different stats for their units? While their eco is better on gather rates and such I always feel it’s slow and requires a 2TC play but then with others rushing it’s harder to keep up with that
I feel like the problem with OOTD is the value/cost for their army and eco.
Maybe if is more of a HRE version with few elite units would be better
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OOtD has great archers in feudal, basically super charged long bows, horsemen with a similar cost:stat ratio to early knights, and really strong castle age strats through burgrave (the discount is actually super OP).
I find them to play very differently from HRE because of their unique mechanic, even if their landmarks are nearly identical… but, they are very easy to predict and clunky. They suffer the most from raids because of the rate that they train vils.
They could do with a touch-up, something to reference their involvement in the crusades (like vlad the impaler) would be great.
Just one thing I would change with them is their armor. At times units have as much as the other civs in armor, yes high HP but without that increase in armor means that they die faster when going against others. While yes I wish things weren’t double the price I would even say a minor +1/+1 armor on all units would be handy
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Yes, if they add Black Rider or more UUs to the HRE, they should give it to the OotD too, but if it’s twice as strong, it should be twice as expensive…
Yes, I had proposed that the HRE landmarks be differentiated by the Imperial state where they are built and grant you new, unique units:
Dark Age:
Aachen Palace: The same bonus as now, and it also allows you to create the Frankish Axe Thrower (it’s the same unit from AoE 2) (remember that Aachen was the center of Carolingian power, and the Frankish Axe Thrower was used by Charles Martel and later Charlemagne).
Meinwerk Palace: No changes.
Feudal Age:
Burgrave Palace: The same bonus as now, and it also allows you to create the early Teutonic Knight of the Templar Knights, but in Castle Age instead of Imperial Age (as in AoE 2) (the Burgrave Palace is based on Nuremberg Castle, whose second castle was built by Frederick Barbarossa and his descendants; this connects it to his campaign in AoE 2).
Regnitz Cathedral: No changes.
Castle Age:
Elzbach Palace: No changes
Palace of Swabia: The same bonus as before, and it also allows you to create the Bavarian villager, which replaces the regular villager. Since it has a cart behind it, it works twice as fast, but it also costs 100 wood in addition to the 100 food (it’s the Settler Wagon from AoE 3). (Swabia was close to Switzerland and Burgundy, so we could see Swiss mercenary pikemen. And since the Chevauleger from AoE 3 is a bit late, and since we already have the Black Rider, it would be a little redundant as a ranged cavalry unit. I wanted to add the Burgundian Coustilier, which is the same as the Burgundian lancer and UU from AoE 2)…
With that, you have four new UU units and another one in an earlier age, and I’m satisfied with that. I could add the Huskarl or Housecarl for Aachen Palace too, but I prefer leave it for the Spanish or Danes/Norse/Vikings if they added in future dlcs…
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In my opinion, the two population slots are very unfavorable and weaken the late game, because their units don’t have double the health or damage.
To compensate, their population limit is increased to 250.
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Yes, that’s a good idea… the Chinese in AoE 3 have a population of 220, for example…
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I like this idea. Makinh their units stronger but then doubling the cost and pop is no advantage at all. I think that they should have 3 special buildings that increase max pop by 20 maxing at 260. Or make their town centers increase max pop.
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What if their age 4 swabia town center did not offer that 10% discount but instead increased the pop space by X amount to offset and add that different advantage compared to HRE or maybe some type of discount on the pop space where your units aren’t all costing double anymore?
Also can we talk about the gilded horseman and the handcannoner are the only two without some type of unique add on tech or ability? Maybe the handconnaner doesn’t need it as much but the horseman I think so. Examples being: men at arms with enhanced armor, spearman AOE torches, archers with scale armor, crossbow with enhanced damage to siege, etc but horseman are left out. Unsure what it would be but something a little extra would be nice
Yes, probably, then they’ll replace them with other UU like the Gilded Magyar Hussar and the Handcannoner with the Gilded Shooter…
Or remove them altogether and replace them with weaker version of knights. Like KT when they choose France, they have 2 knight versions. It still needs to feel like antiranged unit but beefier and with charge ability in fact it will be the best antiranged unit in the game.
Black Rider and Teutonic Knight would be cool. They are “elite units” so they fit well with the description of the civilization.
Burgrave unlocks the Teutonic Knight and Elzbach unlocks Black Rider.
There wouldn’t need to be a “dual version” like the other OOTD units.
Both Teutonic and Black Rider could only be produced by Burgrave and Elzbach, this would be a good limiting factor.
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I don’t know what criteria they used to choose the Order of the Dragon for the first variant of the HRE, given several points against it:
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- Because it’s an order of nobles, more political than military, it’s difficult to truly give it “historical attributes” in terms of its military and technologies to make it feel original.
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- Since the king who founded it was also King of Hungary, in theory it should have been a Hungarian variant.
If we consider that the criteria for the “first variants” (Zhuxi, Jeanne, Ayu, Oftd) was that they shouldn’t differ much from their base civs, under the idea that players of the original civ wouldn’t have to learn other build orders, then it wasn’t seen that way but rather as "cheap, low-budget copies."
That being the case, there were many attributes that LIMITED the ability to make modifications to the Order of the Dragon once the DLC was released:
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(1) HRE restricted: By choosing the HRE and selecting powerful versions of its base units, both civs were restricted, since any changes to the HRE’s normal units would be reflected in stronger OotD units, and this is seen in the Gilded Lansknecht, good for the Order, terrible for the HRE.
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(2) Landmarks: By not giving them new Landmarks, the mechanics they could implement were also limited. Simply modifying the effect of the base civilization’s Landmarks slightly isn’t enough.
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(3) Mechanics: It’s practically a Protoss civilization: few units, but better stats, ideal for micromanagement. Any new units would have to be the same, but the current ones are already quite strong.
Current Situation
Now in 2025, with good variants that live up to expectations in terms of historical accuracy and originality, as well as the new HRE changes (Black Riders), we can say that the restriction barrier (1) has been broken.
Therefore, we can certainly request new Landmarks, changes to some units, or more unique technologies, taking into account the civilization’s power in the Early, Middle, and Late Game.
That would be a incredible idea.