So here guys what Ornlu thinks about civs tier depend on eco, you can see here the final tier for the civs from the pic, because it is not a thumbnail it is the full tier list.
I totally agree with him for everything except Saracens, he put them B eco tier but imo they are like C eco tier, so what do you think about this list?
Pretty accurate list except for Cumans, which is way very situational and the most easily punished eco.
Cumans are A tier at best.
Yeah I really think Cumans need help, they are the worst at all ELOs and the worst in +1650 ELO, but Ornlu perspective here is because still having a 2nd TC in feudal is really good bonus.
Berbers, Byzantines and Portuguese are in different tiers. I think Byzantines and Berbers deserve to be in C-tier.
Cuman 2nd TC is S+ tier on closed maps, C tier on Arabia. So B tier is more logical to me overall.
i’d say low b high c since arabia and open maps are far more common then closed maps are.
Berbers and Byz bonuses are meh and I agree with him being in D. Cumans is S because you still have a 2nd TC in feudal whatever the map is, so if you can get it then it is the best.
this looks like some farmville map tier list
japan / lithunian are stronger on any map worth playing (eg. coastal-like maps)
and mongol/briton is so busted that nobody can put extra hunt/sheep on the map
Korean eco is not amazing but it’s notd tier I think. You’re going for archers most of the time, so saving wood and defense upgrades feels pretty good. You can get extra farms quite easily
he specifies that he isn’t counting unit discounts, as those are more military bonuses. he’s talking specifically the economic side of things, otherwise portuguese would be higher.
I also think Mayans, Tatars, Incas and Lith can easily put one tier higher because they have bonusses to free food, the most important eco bonus in the game. I personally think Incas are actually A-Tier, as they have literally 4 eco bonusses.
Burgs might be controversial, too. If they get away with greed their eco is almost at the same level as malay, but only if. For the same reason I would cumans drop 2 spots at least.
I think this is from an eco perspective not jow effective in game the eco bonus is
They have 3. The team bonus sucks
I agree that Incas and sgould be higher
Not sure about Mayans an Tatars tbh. And Lith mid game sucks
How?! They have the sickest Knights in the game, map control can be easily achieved with their strong Feudal Age.
Mid game eco sucks. And this tier list is about eco
It’s a tier list focused around booming, so very good bonuses like the Lith one become just good , while decent bonuses like the Inca ones look much worse.
Well Lith have insane boom on every Map with some ponds.
I think a Tier-List shouldn’t be covering such simple things like booming, which you can practically calculate. It should explain why certain bonusses like the lith one look quite weak but can be one of the best eco bonusses in the game if played correctly.
Why else I would look a Tier List?
but those sickest knights in the game require you to drop a monastery and collect relics, meanwhile other civs get their bonuses for free, kicking in right away.
Oh hey, another one of my vids was posted here! Just to clear up any confusion for anything I explained poorly and/or for people who just looked at the list without all of the context I put into my decisions 
The tier list is exclusively about land maps. This is not because I don’t like water or hybrid maps, but rather because things get really murky really fast. For example, Slav farm bonus is great on all land maps, but is relatively worse on water maps because you spend so much time fishing. I just wanted a level playing field when talking about the bonuses and such.
The tier list is focused very specifically on economy (at all stages of the game, but much more heavily weighted towards early game/booming). For the purposes of the video, I intentionally don’t include military bonuses like cheaper [military] units/techs. Yes you could argue that a bonus like Berber cheaper cavalry helps your eco because you save resources and can do more stuff with the same amount of Villagers… but at that point, pretty much every bonus in the game becomes an eco bonus. So that’s why I don’t include those 11
Also, I am looking at a civ’s economy holistically - not a single, specific bonus. I’m also mostly thinking of the maps/game types that you see commonly played at a competitive level. Furthermore, I’m also considering the bonuses in the context of a (reasonably) high level player.
Cumans were indeed the hardest civ to place. I put them in S-tier because their potential is truly quite strong, and this isn’t just theory - we do see the power of the Cuman eco in high level games on a variety of map types. That said, if you can’t make use of that early second TC… then you have a D-tier eco. Idk, feel free to disagree with me. That civ is just hard to place 11
Anyway hope you guys enjoyed the video, and that this post helps clear up any confusion 
Well done bro keep going, I agree with you 
. People like you making this community awesome.
Yo Ornlu 
Nice video and I kinda get the approach but still I don’t really think entirely excluding cheaper units works. At t least not the way you are doing it. If your eco tier list shouldn’t depend on making military it should be a pure booming list. And then Huns can’t be realistically A-Tier bc this bonus only saves you significant amount of wood if you pump out military. For instance, vietnamese save more wood, here (at least at the relevant stages of the game). Also I think chinese eco only becomes S-Tier if you include cheaper military techs. In terms of pure booming (like an arena booming contest) they wouldn’t be able to keep up with civs like Malay or Khmer. If you include these kind of bonuses that partly apply to military I’d also include Portuguese bc their gold bonus is quite general. And then the list gets quite messy. So imo it would be better to either make a eco tier list that includes cheaper military to some degree (doesn’t have to be considered equally to gathering bonuses or the like) or a pure booming list.
