Ottomans Needs Urgent Rework!

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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As I have written many times before, the Ottoman civilisation was made very badly by the developers. Developers accepted the Ottoman Empire as the continuation of Seljuks or Turks, and landmark selections were made accordingly. Sultanhanı Trade Network, Double Minaret Madrassa are examples of this. While the developers accepted the Ottomans as the continuation of the Seljuks or Turks, for some reason they did not give the most important military units of the Turks, the Horse Archers, to the Ottomans. Now I see that the Japanese have Horse Archers. I don’t know what to think. The buildings of the Landmarks in the game are very badly designed. Double Minaret Madrassa, Sultanhani Trade Network, Mehmed Imperial Armoury. They don’t match the originals in any way. Landmarks of other civilisations shine by saying “I am here, I am special”. I don’t understand why they didn’t see the Great Mosque built during the reign of Yildirim Bayazid when they were choosing landmarks, because this mosque has an important position since it was built after the Battle of ####### during the foundation period of the Ottoman Empire. One of the landmarks of the Ottoman Empire during the transition to the fourth age is the Imperial Observatory. Historically, the Imperial Observatory aka Takiyüddin’s Observatory was founded in 1575 and was closed in 1577 after a comet was seen. How can a building that was hardly ever used, with very little activity, be chosen as a landmark of a civilisation? The Suleymaniye Mosque, built by Suleiman the Magnificent, could have been a landmark that best reflects the fourth age of the Ottoman Empire in the game, but the developers did not choose this landmark either. As I wrote before, the developers designed the Ottoman Empire in a very narrow mould by giving the Ottoman Empire the ability to produce soldiers for free in Military School buildings and giving Vizier points. While other civilisations have received significant upgrades, the Ottomans have so far been left without any new additions or fixes. Although the Janissaries played a major role in the wars won during the rise of the Ottoman Empire, the Janissaries are pathetic in the game. There is no feature that will win the game for the player playing the Ottoman. What is the person playing the Ottoman expected to do tactically? The only thing he can do is to increase the number of soldiers in military schools. Is there anything else? Vizier points do nothing but increase the number and speed at which the Military Schools produce men. Drongo says in his latest video that the current state of military schools needs to be fixed. Finally, when I look at the screenshot of the Japanese, I see that the civilisation is very well done, the landmarks are very well selected and architecturally transferred to the game very well, and I conclude that the dlc a year ago was not very careful because it was free, and the current one is more careful because it is paid. Dear developers, I hope you will take into account what I have written, if not, you know, the play rates of the game are at a very low level, if you want it to continue like this, continue like this.

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The only thing that needs immediate rework are the people that want an e-sports oriented competitive game to be 100% historically accurate according to their own very personal view.
Ottomen are fine.

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Not fine, this is your opinion. They are the worst and they dont reflect the real history.

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Of course, people that want E-Sports oriented competitive game need to be reworked because E-Sports aren’t that important.

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Bro sultanhanı is fine its a safe gold resource also i dont agree with buff to millitary schools it would make them op i think devs shouldnt touch them.Horse archer and a normal handcannoneer should add as units.Interesetingly Ottomans has the second highest win rate on dimond and beyond its so weird.Maybe janissary bonus damage taken should be reduced but shouldnt totaly removed because they become op if its completely removed or they can get a range boost with the vizier point.

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This is your opinion. This no reflects real players

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讓我告訴你一個事實。從你的觀點來看，倭的設計很好。但從比你更理解東亞歷史的我來看，倭的設計並不符合歷史。我覺得鄂圖曼的設計很好。

你看出問題了嗎？因為“不了解”所以對陌生文明只有刻板印象。你真正該做的事是宣揚土耳其的文化和歷史。就像倭一樣，利用漫畫、動畫、電影，宣傳武士、忍者，以及核污染水對環境無害。只有你的宣傳成功，你提的意見才會被重視。

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Seriously Speaking, both Ottoman, Delhi and China have used cavalry archers in history.
Perhaps it was due to balance considerations that they didn’t give these civs with cavalry archers.

In fact, I don’t think it will be detrimental to balance if we give these 3 civs with the cavalry archers which can’t attack when moving just like Ros’s. I believe this is a considerable suggestion.

However, it is just OK now. Ottoman have already performed well enough without cavalry archer, especially when ordinary players but not someone professional were using it.

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Would love to see cavalry archer given to Ottoman, Delhi and China (And Japan too).

In exchange they could give a new unique unit to Rus that is more specific… If needed.

About ottoman, I think from what pro players were saying the problem is that the military school are so expensive that if you go for them early you delay your age 3 or second TC too much. I think Military school should be less expensive. 100 wood + 100 rock, or even 100 wood + 50 rock. They could roll back the extra starting wood if this makes them too fast. Since with 100w 50r they wouldnt need to go harvest that rock at the start.

And then give them horse archer. They should be fine after that.

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This is logic. 5 MS in late game is a huge advantage, and you need to have a drawback if you build them too early.

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Bro, I criticise the idea of the Ottomans relying only on military schools. The Ottomans are very weak in the late game. I’m not saying this, everyone says it. Instead of just raising units to military schools, it is necessary to give unique technologies that will enable the Ottomans to win in the last period game. Without giving technology, saying that I only gave military schools and military schools are enough makes the Ottoman Empire a very boring and weak civilisation. If Janissaries do not win the game for me as in history, why should I raise Janissaries? I still don’t understand why you say that Janissaries are strong. Have you seen pro players raising janissaries in Youtube videos? I have never seen it. In Youtube videos, I always see the Ottoman Empire as a boring civilisation. Apart from that, I do not think that some of the landmark choices of the developers and Sultanhanı, Double Minaret Madrassa, Mehmed Armory landmarks are reflected in the game by paying attention to their size and dimensions in accordance with their realities. Take a look at the landmarks of England, how they are taken care of, how every detail is added to the game, and look at the Ottoman Empire. These buildings were built for the sake of being built. Those who look with an impartial eye see what I say, those who look biased only say Ottomans are fine, that’s all.

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Just add Ottoman (2 3 4 age landmarks, 2 3 age TC and style of buildings like archery barracks…) and Delhi (just landmarks) for graphic rework, modeling of buildings shouldn’t be such a problem

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I didnt say janisarries are strong i said if we get rid of their bonus damage taken from ranged they will become op.They should lower their bonus damage take and also janissary vizier point should give them bomus range like 1.5 more range.They can improve the architacture of landmarks but its imposible to fit %100 same one with real life

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I don’t think Ottomans needs a rework, but I do think that more improvements should be made like increasing the HP of the Janissaries, and either giving the Ottomans, the Horse Archer, or give the Sipahi, the ranged ability.

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dont mean to be same like it is in real life what i mean is some realy strange style solutions that stand out from the rest here i will further elaborate
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here we see the textures of the stone and brick wall, the symmetry of which differs in relation to the position of the window, which certainly deviates from any rule of symmetry

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here we see the lack of any details and architectural motifs, the building consists of the simplest shapes, which does not match the rest of the TC in the game due to the lack of any 3d elements on the wall, probably a timed version

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here we see real structures, again a matter of style, in the pictures above the layers with brick and stone are so roughly differentiated, also the choice of colors adds to the impression that different parts cannot possibly be an integral part of the wall

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here I don’t know why the choice fell on a texture with a huge stone that gives an illogical look to an object that should be among the largest in the game, this texture also leads to a very oversimplification compared to the rest of the civilizations, I personally like the concept of this landmark very much, I think that it should definitely be there, with that said, I continue with the copper plates on top that look like kitchen tiles, the way of connecting them does not correspond to any possible construction technique, they themselves are oversized, while the domes are well done, this element destroys the whole picture, increasing the domes and bringing them closer to the edges and reducing their size and texture at the transition between them is obviously a better solution

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oh and than we have 4. age ,in addition to the look of the observatory, which is more suitable for an RTS game set in a science fiction environment, because of such bad proportions (my opinion is that it would be better to do it in the style of the spasskaya tower, which, although it looks reduced, at least maintains functional proportions), i we will leave them aside for the moment because eventually everything will be said about them

FINAL THOUGHTS

when we compare the buildings and landmarks related to the first age and moving on, it is obvious that the designers were in a hurry and that most of them were rushed. which culminates in landmarks of the fourth age, which are not even finished. I understand the problems that could have arisen before the first dlc, but that should by no means be a reason for the architecture of this civilization to essentially remain unfinished

Delhi

although for the most part a remarkably well-made civilization, the landmarks were obviously made for a much larger scale then scaled down unfinished absolutely put into play

PS

I think this is one of the most beautiful graphical RTS games, precisely because of what they have achieved, they have set some standard, because of which such things really make big deviations and sting the eyes

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I think the Ottoman are pretty cool as they are.

My only issue with them is that a lot of their important features are microheavy. For example, the Mehter can give a very strong buff to every unit in their vicinity. They can also change their stats on the fly, from damage, to projectile repelling, to melee defence. Additionally, they can add Imams that heal an entire army–in combat. It is insane. Their economy bonus takes the form of the Academy, which cuts out the middle man (resources) and just produces whatever you like. On top of all that, they have the strongest horseman in the game and the strongest siege unit.

However, each and every one of the things I mentioned require an additional moment of attention to work. Their Siege units need to be manned with infantry to compete, you need to remember to include Mehters to armies so you don’t get slaughtered, Imams must be created and included as well, both Mehters and Sipahi have abilities and the Great Bombard is lumbersome and very vulnerable.

I’m not really sure if they need a change despite that. One thing I’d like to ask for, is to change the Military Academy slightly. Rather than automatically creating Units, it’d be a lot more convenient for them to “build up” points (like Vizier points) that can be spent at the Academies to immediately spawn the units they want. This would allow Ottoman to be more flexible but also would make it feel more satisfying.

Something about the psychology of passively massing an army or adding Academy units to your main army feels less interactive and purposeful than hitting a big ol purchase button to get what you need in the moment.

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I also want to mention something else.

People like complaining. Hell, I’m probably one of the people that does it the most on this forum. While I complain about things like graphics and animations and UI, competitive folk have a different tendency.

It is usually to do with balance and civilizations. Much like I hyperfocus on certain issues like the UI, players like to shift from civilization to civilization, each and every season.

It is not uncommon. This is not an AoE4 thing. For the better or worse, players try to find problems with things. And the case of AoE4 is that, we don’t really have many civilizations, so the cycle of complaining about Civilization A, to C, to F, to D, and back to A is really short.

But, that isn’t exactly my main point either. AoE4 is just not really much of a singleplayer game. Singleplayer content is very low as is, and that is reflected in its content creators. From players that make tier lists every other week shaping players perspectives, to others as in this post, pointing out that something is wrong with a civilization–a lot of it is populist in nature. A lot of it happens because, lets be honest, the game doesn’t “move”.

In a field of nothing but grass, it is easy to notice the dragonfly going by.

To summarize; I think this Ottoman thing is blowing up a bit too fast for no real reason. Ottoman may not be the gem of the game as is, but from past Drongo videos, I have noticed that he tends to take issue with minor civilization problems. And it isn’t per se his fault, the more stagnant the game becomes, the more these small issues are magnified.

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I would partially agree with you, what I personaly want to achieve is not some kind of perfection, but consistency in that all civilizations are done with the same quality to a certain extent.

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although not historically accurate, my opinion is that the Ottoman landmarks for the transition to the second age are one of the most beautiful in the game-Sultanhanı, Double Minaret Madrassa other than that i agree with everything u writed in this post

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The elite cavalry of the Tang Dynasty in China swept across East Asia, North Asia, and some Central Asian regions. AOE4 did not provide the Chinese with a strong cavalry in the early stages of the game, which is also not in line with historical facts. I am very dissatisfied with Japan in the game. In both AOE3 and AOE4, Japan has powerful cavalry units, which is seriously inconsistent with history. Before industrialization, Japan was always an island country, and the strength of cavalry was only experienced during Japan’s internal civil war, without external proof. The cavalry of Chinese or Mongolian people, who marched around and constantly fought against different countries or ethnic groups, gained recognition for their strength. China has a long history of equestrian and archery, and its strength is very strong. I don’t understand that AOE has always positioned the Chinese as a country dominated by infantry. In history, the expansion of the Chinese was mostly achieved through elite cavalry, rather than relying on the two legs of infantry to expand to over 10 million square kilometers of territory.

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