Please fix unbalanced/broken Coustillier

*Remove bugged double damage charge-attack vs units wearing archer armor.
*Increase training time from 15 (14 elite) seconds to 18 (16 elite) seconds.
*Decrease speed from 1.35 to 1.3 (same as Boyar).
*During ‘charge-ready’ gains 10% increased movement speed (making them ever-so-slightly slower than a camel, ~1.4).
*Increase Elite Coustillier upgrade time from 45 seconds to 60 seconds (same as Elite Boyar).
*Decrease charge-attack bonus from 35 (40 elite) to 29 (36 elite) – (No more loomed villager one-shot during Castle Age)
*Increase cost per unit from 55f 55g to 60f 60g.

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Both new civs will get nerfed next pacth

i don’t see why Sicilians need to get nerfed other then their UT, outside of that the civ doesn’t seem that strong.


In fact, it may need a buff, since it actually gets Trushed to Hell and back.


Man, only today I was crunching the numbers of Coustillier and look what I found:

  1. HP: only slightly less than generic Knight (5 HP less than Frank Knight) and slightly more than generic Cavalier or 15 less than Burgandian Paladin
  2. Armor: same as Knights, Cavaliers and standard heavy cavalry; -1p armor compared to Paladins
  3. Cost: slightly less food cost, much less gold cost
  4. Attack: in sustained fighting it is more like 9.75 and 13, which is lot like standard Knights and Paladins; but accounting for breaks it can go upto 43 and 51; against buildings it is always 8 and 11

So the 35 and 40 charge attack really mess up with the value of the unit. Even assuming sustained fighting, which gives the theoretical minimum against units, they have slightly less attack than Knights and slightly more than Cavaliers, which in no way seems balanced when accounting the cost

I like the concept of charged attack, but the implementation can be OP

Seeing their cost, they should be comparable to Keshiks and Tarkans - boasting high HP and good pierce armor and low value in melee fights

Coustillier is the Burgandian UU

my response was to equalizer.


I will say that Sicilian farm bonus should be reworked. It doesn’t provide any benefit till early Castle Age (going feudal heavy) or mid Castle Age (going fast castle)

I think their military discount bonus (50% less damage against any bonus attack) is sick and need a nerf and their farms with +100% more food is really high

and yet the civ doesn’t seem that strong, it feels fairly middle of the road. they don’t have a good early eco bonus to boost them up, and their only eco bonuses is getting a bit better farming then other civs and building TCs faster.

assuming they get all the farm upgrades they get 925 food from a farm. that means an Imperial Age farm will get them 15.4 food per wood compared to the 9.17 food for another civ. now compare that to the bonuses of other civs who gather wood faster, or save 20 wood on each and every farm, or who get upgrades for free or etc.


Neither of those things make them good, they miss Hussar, Paladin and Ring Archer Armour, and still do not have the Economy to field a lot of troops quickly.

Sicilians are average at best, slightly weak at worst. There is no need to nerf them.


Why do you think this is a bug? It might as well be intended.

It is a bug, it deal double the damage, but has no registered damage bonus.

Nothing in the description of skirmisher says that they should deal bonus damage to pikes, yet they do.
Nothing in the description of eagles implies they deal bonus damage to cavalry, yet they do (in fact, it’s the opposite, the description says they are weak against cav, but they are not).
Neither of those instances are considered as bugs. Coustilier is very specifically said to be effective against archers, implying presense of related bonuses, but for some reason everyone instanlty agrees that extra damage against archers is a bug.

That is mainly a Cavalry bonus against Spears and Camels making them equivalents of Cataphracts

And may help your infantry against Samurai, Slingers, Cataphracts and Jaguar Warriors

For archers against Skirmishers, it is there but doesn’t impact the game much.

The average game does end in Castle Age. So I am ignoring.

Just doing simple math, I get that Sicilians with Heavy Plough are slightly worse than Teutons with heavy plough, and the numbers get worse in earlier ages. So this bonus only shines with Crop Rotation which doesn’t pay off till an hour.

The bonus is intended because a gold costing unit should win against a trash unit (LCav and Hussar) and that’s the case with Eagle Warriors, EEW and Castle Age Eagle Scouts. They still do poorly against standard heavy Cavalry.

The devs have confirmed it is a bug.


Because bonus damage in AoE2 is always calculated via armor-bypassing addition, never multiplication. This is an accidental aberration.


Skirmisher have a tagged bonus damage vs Spearmen units, in their stat files, the Coustillier does not.

It is a bug, and no other unit in the game deals DOUBLE damage to anything.


The only broken thing about Sicilians, its the “first cruzade” tech.


And this sentence disqualifies you to ever propose any balance changes. I have seen enough.

If you dont understand why one word: Nomad

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The anti bonus make knights too good in castle age, that would be my main complain

The 100% bonus to TC construction makes them so op on nomad, and the castle production bonus mean that is a lot easier for them to drop one in front of your base. Is not super broken, but i could see a little nerf there.

Thats an obvious change that needs to happen and I didn’t even consider it because it’s similar to the Mayan and Chinese nerfs. But nice try, I’d basically already filed that one in a “this is gonna happen no matter what category”

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