I disagree here, one can balance both 1v1 and teamgames, ofcourse there won’t ever be a perfect balance around teamgames BUT if a unit is broken in teamgames it needs a fix, no matter if it is totally fine in 1v1.
The fix would be to add torch armor to landmarks, this would not change the playstlye at all neither in 1v1 nor teamgames.
They definitely will if it turns out to be a game breaking mechanic within a certain elo range. Pro players are those you balance around, nonetheless, the fun of casual players will always be the most important aspect they build their game around (and fun does not mean they balance around that elo, just removing mechanics like this)
As prime example you can take league of legends, balancing ALWAYS happens throughout all elo ranges. If it is not possible to balance a hero / unit so it does not destroy the gameplay in a certain elo range then it is redesigned so it better fits into the game.
I dont have any problems with Mass Spears against Firelancers. Charge Brace 100% Negates the AoE Charge of the Lancers and then they just melt in seconds.
The problem is purely that firelancers can kick out players almost instantly by destroying landmarks. As a unit itself, like you mention they got a very decent counter.
yeah, but No. just build some stone walls.
That is basically impossible. In a 4v4 you almost always will have a hole in some of the walls and 1 player getting sniped is enough to lose the game. In the end, units should not be able to tear down landmarks that easily anyways without any sort of siege, so why not add some torch armor, I couldn’t care less about that fix actually.
Not as HRE and Dehli were the spear bracing is bugged.
After stonewalling the base they can easy snipe siege or even blocks of Maa because there AoE charge explotion makes huge dmg to them and this factions cant block the charge.
Then they need to fix the bracing bug not the firelancer. And they should be able to snipe siege, as normal horseman should be able to do so too.
AoE damage is just a bit on the high side in general, its the same with landsknecht if someone can mass them with springalds support.
No, the explotions dmg vs normal units must be nerfed cause it shreds them in seconds maa in tide spaces or chokes in walls. The Dmg is fine vs Siege because its the purpose.
Yeah but you understand that it’s not possible to balance the game around 4v4 right?
and if firelaner really is that big of a problem in 4v4, every player in 4v4 SHOULD build stone walls around their base instead “my teammates are noobs they dont know how to build walls thus firelaner needs to be nerfed.”
yea it won’t ever be perfectly balanced, just good enough so it is enjoyable
Stone walls wont help. It can be balanced for 4v4 too, other games in the series are a joy to play in 4v4.
Let me give you a quick example, 3v3 game. I’m HRE, I have a Chinese teammate and a Brit teammate. Opponent has 2 Chinese and 1 mongol.
I get to feudal go to the first Chinese players base with man at arms and archers to harass.
The mongol player now send mangudai to my base to harass me. I start to make outposts while still harassing Chinese player 1.
My team mates hit castle. Chinese player 2 from opponent side gets castle. Chinese player 1 I am harassing holds while I get siege engineering and got 3 Rams. The now buffed ZhuGeNu mass starts hitting my archers, and yep they melt so fast cause feudal Chinese need a buff amirite? I withdraw and get to castle, at 15 mins there are now 4 people in castle age and myself and the other Chinese player on their team are in feudal. But his zhugenu actually are busted and kite my MAA for days while I’m trying to take out his landmarks. He suddenly gets to castle cause he makes a landmark in the other Chinese players base.
I’m starting to build stone walls now that I am in castle but hold up the other Chinese player gets to imperial, my team gets to imperial. I’m clicking up. While stone walls are going up. China player I was harassing finally gets to castle. Teammate China player gets hit by 3 bombards and 30 fire lancers (not even elite and no upgrades) mangudai rush in first, in sending my landskents over to help deal with siege, by the time I reach there, the other China player on my side is gone, the China player I was harassing finds my lone landmark that I built at the corner with his 20 fire lancers and the Brit player has longbows all over the walls on our side, I start pumping out spearmen from my 22 barracks, China player busts into Brit base, no worries right? I should be able to brace their charge, easy counter, they ignore the spearmen and rush straight to every landmark in Brit base, they are losing people, but they manage to take out 3 landmarks, now there’s yellow firelancers, red firelancers, and cyan mangudai, 3 bombards, 2 mangonels in our base, I have 60 spears, 7 springs, Brit player has about 40 longbows and 3 mangonels, we try to back away.
Firelancers charge in and once again ignore units and go for my landmarks, I try to wololo, the charge explodes my monk. Game over
Edit: post game, they have 4 imperial officials supervising their stables built around a spirit way. Fire lancers have no reason to cost nothing to make. And it is easily achieved within 20 minutes of the game
100% they need nerfed… super OP… build walls people say? they just shoot them down with cannons they are CHINESE… they 1 shot infantry blobs even when spread… they decimate workers and they raze landmarks in seconds.
They also destroy artillery soooo fast.
Super op unit
Yeah very ez to do on open maps like King ofth or Arabia right? mr. smart. 
Or when u play as Rus + Mongol
Yeah they are effective in the team games sometimes I just don’t think they are gonna get nerf just because they are somewhat effective in the team games.
like the other guy said maybe change the rules in the team game so you wont be kicked out once your landmarks are gone.
Tell me more
Helllo, sc2 player, we (aoe-players) have pretty balanced 4vs4 in aoe2. No one balanced it especially for TGs, but game were fun
And number of players are twice more than in 1vs1.
But keep telling “impossible”.
PS The one and the biggest issue - u die before ur team loose.
PPS in 1vs1 firelancer also “cheese”,cheap and broken. Anyone who bellow 1200RM - can kill easily with “firelancer snipe”.
Perhaps, but team games are notoriously difficult to balance around without significantly changing 1v1 too. Aoe2 for example very rarely made changes to team games which have had a very stale meta for a long time.
Yeah, fun really has nothing to do with the game balance tho, You could be having fun stirring dog shat with a stick but it doesn’t make it a good game.
like I said, it maybe a good idea to change the rule of team game so you dont get kicked out once your landmarks are gone but I don’t think it’s a good idea to just nerf things if they are somewhat effective in lowelo 4v4 games.
no just nerf them… they are overperforming… simple as that