amazing comparison[no].reread post… 24 times.
Numbers wont lie. SinglePlayer > TG > 1vs1. - the distribution of players. With suggestions like “dont balance game for TGs”. I would recommend to return into sc2 or whatever game u want to play without TGs.
PS Hope u play on TheViper’s lvl to say that top1k TG is low elo.
Let’s name everyone who bellow 2000place - noobs and dont care about them… (sarkazm).
I understand your frustration mate, but that is not how things go, this is not a popularity contest.
more people play single player dont meant the game is single-player-centric, and more noobs than pros don’t mean the game balance is gonna pander towards noobs.
because noob’s opinion about the game’s balance is just not valid, its just meaningless, the best a noob can do is to have fun.
At least how it went in aoe2 abd aoe3, those games were balanced around 1v1 play. They didn’t completely throw team games out of the window, but changes made due to team game meta were few and far between.
Fire Lancers are indeed busted
It’s not even close
Just wait until the match between Viper and Beastyqt is public where Viper use Fire Lancer as normal people do instead of using them for combat
This could be an easy fix, same as with scouts, fire lancers can have splash charge, they can have maybe more stats, increased HP and armor maybe, but they need to do away with the siege dmg they do. Even in pro games you can see fire lancers snipe keeps with ease. That’s with the burning oil upgrade. Or make it so torch damage doesn’t affect keeps. It requires full stone to build.
Right now my 2 fav COVs, RUS and Abbasid have no counter to fire lancers. No matter how much pressure you put on the Chinese player early game. I have tried cav archers too. Abbasid is the saddest. I can’t even stone wall my landmark. I surround it with keeps and they still don’t do enough. I had some success with Brit longbows due to the anti charge skill. But it’s so telegraphed the second it goes up the firelancers go the other direction. Against spears they run circles around. And spears being spears are useless against almost anything else in a game. Fire lancers with zhugenu buff really puts China so far ahead of certain civs
Yeah I agree firelancer might need some adjustment for their siege damage, but I haven’t seen any high-level 1v1 game that freelancers played a major role in and win, they are essentially late-game raiders. the last game I saw with them it’s beast’s Rus vs 3Dbee’s Chinese but the Rus dispatch the firelancers with horse archers relatively easy. another game with them is KZ’s Chinese vs Hera’s Rus, this time the Chinese did win but firelancer wasn’t the winning factor, it was the truly OP Chinese siege weapons.
I mainly play Chinese people, but I also hate the Fire Lancer unit. I suggest reducing the damage caused by Fire Lancer to buildings and leaving the rest unchanged. After all, in history, fireworks will only scare the enemy (charge damage). Cannot destroy buildings.
Agreed, they might not be a win condition, but Chinese has such good siege that the fire lancers don’t need the extra siege damage tied to them.
Bombards make a hole in the wall, and fire lancers rush in. Any sane person would try to take out opponent siege, at the cost of his own units. So think of it this way, to protect your own landmarks you would want to take out opponent siege, knowing that they can end you with bombards firing away. So in a proper defence if there is a hole in your wall, you would try your best to rush the siege down and use your own siege.
The issue with fire lancers is, they do siege damage and are mobile, so you can’t ignore them, I wouldn’t consider them late game raid units. They are siege engines on steroids. 3 bombards cost 1800 gold, the same amount can make at least 30+ fire lancers.
It’s a lose lose situation, you go for fire lancers they run around your base with units in tow, and you need to micro these units so they don’t get charged, all the time the Chinese bombards are free to snipe.
Doing away with fire lancers torch damage to buildings will help to balance it. Explosive charges are fine, the movement speed is fine, just compensate the siege damage with armor or more HP.
This way, even if they break through a wall, there is some form of counter play, as it is, getting to firelancers by 20 mins is proven to be doable. The buffs to early China also helps them defend against early aggression.
-Solutions would be
-10 second charge delay (Currently only 2 seconds which makes them so OP).
-Decrease in normal damage since it costs less food
-Decrease in charge damage from 21 to 18 (No upgrades included)
As you can see, currently, it is so cheap compare to what it really does and how much bonuses it got.
+1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
They do 45 Torch damage which is just insanely high to the amount that even special techs a la +4 Firearmor for buildings are just not enough anymore.
That needs to be reduced drastically and its fine.
plus +10 dmg to siege and +11 to ranged units.
When elite they deal 55 torch building damage!
Fire lancer charge attack should be once only with their speed.
Also their siege attack is too OP.
Actually I don’t think Fire Lancers are very strong in combat - most high level players don’t think they are - they still struggle vs siege halb - as siege is INSANELY tanky vs anything except siege 11. The landmark sniping in TGs should be changed in general not only vs firelancers.
I had so many AoE II games where my base or one of my friends(2.5k tg elo) bases was wiped out and with a bit of sling I was fully boomed again after <10 minutes. Like if you spawn in a Nomad game on top of 2 opponents and get casltedropped you will need to move and recover. I just think the victory condition should be kill all opponents landmarks to kill a player and if not 1 of you is able to wall a landmark vs mass firelancers that’s clearly a you problem then.
There is absolutely no problem with the balance. The problem is abrupt endings in low level team games. Siege units are slow and powerful at destroying landmarks. It gives time to react. Fire lancers are very mobile and as good at killing landmarks, so they are natural choice for team games on large maps.
What I would like development team to do is to count in how many team games mass fire lancers was involved in erasing landmarks. See the scale of the problem.
Nerfing them will remove a decent counter attack strategy from 1v1 games, which is a shame. May be make firelancers when massed less effective? This shouldn’t hurt 1v1 scene much.
What about the Rus and the Mongols? they don’t have stone wall 11
And each fire lancer in the Yuan dynasty gets 15% movement speed and makes them super fast with 55 torch damage each…
They just spit on each landmark and go the other in a minute.
No way to stop them 11
The important thing in a balance, apart from animation unit, will always be its cost / effectiveness and, consequently, the times that players make that unit and win.
Everything else is history, what has been shown in various threads and comments is that the Fire Lancer does much more than the cost it has, so you must look at the causes and balance it properly.
Mongols should be fine - just drive to your teammate 11. Rus are such an insane TG civ atm - with the super Fast castle horsearcher (~8min castleage 3 range horsearcher)- getting always 500+ hunt in TGs getting on 30 CA before the Chinese gets a mass of fire lancers out - harassing all opponents. Either let a teammate wall one landmark or just kill the Chinese eco. I actually think RUS are the best TG civ atm - atleast for 2v2 - so they are allowed to have a weakness which can easily be fixed by teamwork.
