The Hoplites are completely broken!! They’re supposed to be effective against cavalry, but right now, they’re overpowered and effective against every single military unit type!!. Hoplites easily decimate the entire Norse army, making the Norse excessively weak against them.
If hoplites are so powerful against all types of units then there is no point in the existence of the Hypaspist???.
How is a Norse supposed to counter a Greek??? if the Greeks are now so powerful that they only need 4 types of units to win easily: hoplites, heroes, peltasts and some siege weapons. Norse infantry is excessively weak against hoplites!
Hersir loose to Murmillo as well as dao swordsmen. They dont win vs any generalist infantry so its a very bad comparison and idea. Also again like you always do, the simulation skews even more the result with upgrades. At this point is obvious why you never shows the unit stats because you know this.
Send herisr vs Katapeltes and watch them win. Does that mean norse absolutely beat all the atlantean army and negate them? No, its a bad conclusion from a bad comparison.
An anti-cavalry unit like the Hoplite shouldn’t be able to easily overpower the best of the Norse infantry, such as Hersirs and Bersekers. That’s completely absurd! Practically, Hoplites annihilate all Norse infantry and all Norse cavalry. That’s ridiculous. An anti-cavalry unit like the Hoplite that can be spammed from the barracks shouldn’t be so powerful! If Hoplites are so effective against other melee and cavalry units, then why do the Hypaspist exist???
The hoplite isnt an anti calv unit. Its a generalist infantry. The bets nordic norse infantry isnt the hersir, so yea 2 for 2. Imagine if hersir beat infantry on top of myth units. Hypaspist exist eaxtly because hoplites arent overpoweres and do loose vs other infantry, like again, murmillo and Dao swordsmen. The hoplite isnt a hirdman or a katapeltes that only do good vs calv and weak against anything else.
I always love how you will ignore all the shenanigans in your simulations and just jump to something else.
What you’re saying is false; Hoplites are anti-cavalry units. The current Hoplite is completely broken and far too powerful for a barracks unit. Hoplites are currently causing too many unbalanced matches.
The Hersir is an expensive unit and the only melee hero unit the Norse have, and the Berserker is the Norse’s frontline defense. It’s completely absurd that the main Norse military units are utterly useless and counteracted by a simple Hoplite. Or rather, all Norse melee units and cavalry are completely countered by Hoplites, who were never intended to be an anti-infantry unit.
Hoplites aren’t powerful? Have you not seen how Hoplites easily annihilate the entire Norse army? The Norse are currently a disaster; Norse infantry is terrible. The only good thing the Norse have is their cavalry, and that’s it. Currently, the Greeks are completely broken, and that’s why everyone chooses them. Nobody likes an overly unbalanced game that only favors one Pantheon, and that’s why the game is losing so many players!
Greeks use podromos as their anti cavalry. Hoplites are generalist units, they are supposed to be good against everything. You make the same mistake in these videos as you make in your previous videos, The norse train Throwing axemen against hoplites. No matter what your army is, You need to have at least some axemen in your composition against pure hoplites.
Won’t concede, won’t acknowledge any valid points, will simply copy and paste already stated points, even after they’re debunked several times. Been there.
Exactly! He MUST be. There’s absolutely possibly no way he could be wrong about anything he writes, no matter how much valid points we raise, since he wrote in all caps! LOL
Theres hard counters and soft counters. Hoplites beat calv in the sense that cav has low hack armor and hoplites deal hack damage. The 1.25% is more of a niche than anything, specially compared to actual calv counters like katapeltes and hirdman.
So? Does that mean it should beat anything? Its a hero unit thats 20 resources more expensive than a priest but a lot better at human combat. Heroes in general arent meant to be good vs human units. You arent supposed to make a full norse hero army and just attack move into a win.
Thats the worst take ever of the berserk. The whole point of that unit is a high dps unit thats fragile. If you want a tank build jarls. Also you know what beats hoplites (and any other infantry)? Throwing axemen.
This isnt just false its very funny. Norse has ways to deal with hoplites, you just want to ignore them. Also if the hoplite was an anti inantry unit it would beat murmillo or dao swordsman right? Right? Yet they dont…
I never said hoplites were bad. they are a very good unit. But to take your joke of a simulation and draw the conclusion they counter infantry is a joke. Not only by hiding details but also by throwing a much worse army comp into something its not meant to beat.
Next test is gonna be something absurd like katapeltes vs peltast and some wild conslusion that katapeltes counter both calv and archers.
Oh for certain. The only reason i even reply to this posts is so others (who may be new or not know better) can see how absurd his claims are, how easy you can disprove them and how he will just jump into another post and repeat the same dance.
Before i get suspended again i just write: Hoplites do have a mutliplier against cavalry thats true, but they are still an allrounder base unit. (btw still not a fan Zeus ones have a bonus vs buildings, and if it should be a specific, expensive upgrade in my opinion.) But everything was told already. Good luck with the discussion.
What you’re trying to defend is absurd, because everything you’re saying is false. There’s no in-game evidence to support what you’re trying to claim. Does the game say anywhere that hoplites are counter-infantry units? No. Show me one single piece of evidence in the game that says “hoplites are effective against infantry”. It doesn’t exist! How is it possible that a single anti-cavalry unit available from the Classical Age is effective against the entire Norse army, including their cavalry? For that reason, hoplites are completely broken. P.S. It’s very easy to defend my argument against yours because you have no evidence. What are you going to do? Show me statistics that prove the hoplites are very broken to further defend my argument?
If you look at the Hoplite description it says “Good against Cavalry.” While on the Hirdman and Katapeltes it says “Only good against Cavalry” that ONLY being the big difference which adds up with their multipliers.
Hoplites have a small x1.25 multiplier against Cavalry (and a high base damage) while Hirdmen and Katapeltes have closer to x5 (and a low base damage). This is why the Hoplite can decently stand up to other infantry while the others don’t in a similiar sense to how Toxeti and Arci can still perform against Prodromi, but Cheiroballistae don’t.
Now under normal circumstances Hoplites shouldn’t fare that well against Berserk as they do in your example. But VERY NOTABLY you can see how there are Hoplites standing behind other Hoplite and still attacking. Which means, they are clearly benefitting from the Myth-tech “Sarissa” a technology that uniquely improves the Hoplites range, giving them ability to more quickly dispatch indivdual foes and turning the situation to by number-advantage.
In siuations like Zeus or Hades going Athena age 2. You HAVE to take Throwing Axemen with you as soldiers, they are longer ranged and have massive anti-infantry multipliers and ignore Athenas other myth-tech (Aegis).
The Heresir one is already understandable as the Herse are Heroes which in the Rock-Paper-Scissor with Human soldier-Myth-Heroes are weak human soldiers SUCH AS THE HOPLITE. Which brings another solution to the Hoplites as the Norse…
Myth Units:
Trolls disrupt sarissa-hoplites gang up capabilities with bouldertoss.
Einherjar can tank them AND boost Throwing Axemen.
Draugar punishes tightly formed Hoplites with area damage.
Valkyries sadly don’t help but since you chose Freya you get Thundering Hooves, which can aid in raiding as a counterplay to heavy military investment.
Remember Greeks get few Heroes, so its easier to play around them as the Norse myth units.
Also. Please in the future try to catch your own mistakes before announcing your ignorance to them. It is often better to think “What have I missed?” instead of “What has the DEVELOPERS missed?” in this case:
The difference between a hard-counter unit very out of their element and a soft-counter unit kinda out of their element with a myth-tech counterbalancing it.
First lets adress the obvious. “Good against calvary” and “Only good against calvary” This two might read similar or equal to you. But theres a very telling difference. One is telling you its not good vs anything else, the other one is simply telling you “hey among all the things this can beat, it beats calv the best”.
Theres also not a single text that says Hersir “good against everything, best norse infantry”. Hoplite is not an anti calv unit, its a generalist infantry, i can explain to you again: Its bonus damage vs calv is a niche on top. It beats it simply because hack damage unit that has high damage armor (Any infantry unit) is better for a versus againts a hack damage unit that has high piercer armor ( regular calv units).
Its not, ever heard of throwing axemen? Or they dont exist? They are definately infantry, since we both know norse doesnt have archers and you have made quite the repetitive posting about how you would like the to have one.
We can begin by doing a proper simulation and not your BS tests. Full armory upgrades, since you are thor (this time both units are champion, you didng skew this further this time, congrats), stop hiding unit stats. You went ragnarok instead of the other mythic god that specifically boosts berserks. You even went freya instead of Forsetti who guess what, boosts infantry units.
We dont know what gods you went for the hoplite, you could have min maxed it.
We dont know if you got the bragi upgrades but hey at least you picked him.
Theres a website that shows vs simulators of 1v1 in units. And fully upgraded berserks beat fully uupgraded hopites, specially thor with his extra armory upgrades.
I can do the simulation for you with the conditions i mentioned and show you if u cant/wont recreate it yourself.
This guy with his anecdotal evidence of broken stuff without real game scenarios. We should just stop giving attention to OP, let’s not waste time discussing with him.
To be fair, it’s not the hoplites that are the problem, but the Greeks in general. I saw one guy who could beat any Scandinavian with three right-clicks. Auto-queue of hoplites, toxotes, and workers. Sign up and use it. When I played with him in a pair, he was already breaking the TC at 3:42.
Yea theres something extra going on here. Thats simply not possible in a normal game. There were extra resources involved, different game mode or simply cheats to hit that timming you mention.
Auto-queue doesnt make any unit or civ stronger, it simply removes part of the players need to be manually making the units and if you have it chances are your opponent also does.
Even if your opponent afks, You are not destroying a tc < 4 min of the game with any civ unless what i said prior.
I apologize, I mixed up the game time, it was not stored correctly in my memory. I also expressed myself incorrectly in my post. The problem is not that the Greeks are too strong, but that the Scandinavians are too weak. The image shows a game of not the most professional players, and the dude on Zeus demolished Loki TC in 9:22.
I didn’t even have time to do anything in this fight before he started attacking the Scandinavian’s main TC. He didn’t do any upgrades.
Although when he fought against someone other than the Scandinavians, he had to go into deep defense, because he is not really a very good player. That is, in his case, victory is achieved not by skill, but by the weakness of a particular faction.
On the other hand, when he had to fight against Egypt, he could no longer do anything and waited for me to win against my opponent.
He didn’t do any upgrades. He didn’t build an arsenal. He fought with T1 hoplites and toxotes and destroyed the enemy’s TC. This is not the Greeks’ problem, because he couldn’t do it with the Egyptians. This is the Scandinavians’ problem.
