arguments yes - but there isn’t still fun in this „tactic“ at all.
if aoe4 ranked shall be alive, there must be fun ans motivation in the games and - as you can read - people missing it alot and the towerrushes are a huge part of the problem
Another Mongol Nerf eh?
From a competitive standpoint i get that tower rushes are a valid and functional part of the strategic toolbox you can use to win the game. It forces the players to act quick. It is a high effort of resource management for both players and it forces the players to think outside of copied build orders (even though tower rush is kind of an copied build order too).
BUT i´m sorry but its boring as hell…
When you think about playing AoE you want to field Armys and build your base. Classic strategies like rushes (WITH UNITS), fast caslte or boom is the way most players enjoy. I´m pretty sure most players started with AoE because they like the setting and/or its classic RTS elements. Nobody thinks: “ahh after this hard day of 8 hours work i would love to play some AoE. I´m so hyped for getting tower rushed today.”
Tower rushes are just not fun. Its not about being a valid or non-valid strategy. I could play against classic rushes all day (Ram/spear pushes, Early Knight all-ins, MaA rush…) but the tower rushes just feels stupid. It feels so outside of the game.
And Mongols is just a problematic civ since the beginning (Which is sad because i really like the aggressive civ concept. Like early raiding with Mangudai is what i was hyped for when aoe4 was teased). It started with the TC rush. Of course it was a valid strategy but its just not fun.
4 Likes
Every game has it’s “cheese” strats that prey upon new players, RTS’ feel particularly bad in thisbecause they already have a pretty high skill floor.
Strategies like Tower rush might seem like the issue. But the real issue is that you need to get past that skill floor to even understand how to play against it, and most people don’t/cant put in the time or effort to get there
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Maybe instead of stationary towers you just build on your opponent’s base and require all their villagers to take down when you just need a few of your own, they could have a few more units instead of just spearman and scout…
Tower rushes, when executing and defending as well, are very strategic. Again you can watch the video I have posted a link to in my previous post. The strategic decisions are explained very well. I see people complain about it quite often and while I mainly read arguments like “it’s dull, boring, does not require skill” I think the opposite is true. It does require skill and is very strategic.
In my opinion without tower rushes this game would be very dull. It just doesn’t have considerable micro options so your strategic options are limited quite often.
This is probably the second or third comment of yours that I’ve read which I’ve found wonderfully insightful. Most posters get wrapped up in detail-oriented concepts but your ability to transition detail-oriented issues into it’s dependent macro concepts, is not only refreshing but a pleasure to read.
2 Likes
Sounds like a casual player/ anti competitive problem? What do you suggest be done? Remove all “cheese”‽ force all RTS to be a macro oriented game?
I want to point out the developers purposely placed your stone and gold outside the protective range of your main TC. Meanwhile they allow all civs to be able to generate dark age infantry (mongols get calvary as well) AND you can make defensive towers AND make additional scouts from your TC to patrol exposed resources.
Heck i dare say mongol tower rushes are NOT SCARY AT ALL… but a Chinese tower rush or English tower rush?? Yeah those 2 are problematic, but still you can deal with them…but they are trouble.
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Well I appreciate the kind words 
It’s easy to get wrapped up in the details as you have said, but most problems, in AoE4, or even just life in general tend to never be about those details which someone has problem with. So I just try to find the root and work from there.
I don’t think they need to do anything about it. People need to learn that losing is an opportunity to grow. Maybe the devs could do a video series on common strats and how to play them and counter them. Other than that, unless something is a bug or legitimately an exploit, I don’t believe it’s a “dev-sude” issue, but a player one.
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The question is not if you can defend a tower/castle rush or if you can win with that strat, the question should be, is this fun? Or we allowed because of “pros”? When age ll was designed, towers were done as a defensive structure never as a offensive one, IMO this is stupid and is not fun.
Why wouldn’t it be fun to actually make lots of strategic decisions under pressure in a RTS? Does it really matter if you are shot by an arrow from a tower or an actual unit like a longbow? As we can see currently there is no tower rush that is OP at all. The defender has got plenty of options to deal with it.
Any tower your opponent builds nearby your base exposes his own base a little bit more, denies growing his army and slows down the process in advancing to the next age. Try to turn the tables by actually making strategic decisions and not staying in your base turtling.
The way I see it is that towers give the offensive player an advantage at the offensive lines while leaving his own base exposed. When building army instead of a tower the pressure on the offensive lines should be a lil bit smaller but due to the mobility the home base isn’t that exposed. As a result, when building offensive towers you kind of force the defending player to actually do something and leave his base. And that seems to be the entire issue people have with it. People who complain just seem to have a general issue with leaving the home base and actually play this game like a RTS in the early-mid game.
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不用脑子请捐出去 狗屁不会只知道tr的傻屌
LEVEL
GOLD I
RATING
911
别说话了，你根本什么都不懂
Oh that’s cute. Are you going to make an actual argument or is that all you can bring to the table? Hm.
I am actually against preventing tower rush. You should be able to tower rush if opponent is dumb. What needs to be changed is fix chinese outpost build time. It should 1.5x faster instead of 2x. Second, buildings under construction should take 2x damage instead of 1.5x damage. This will make it possible to even prevent barbican drop if you saw it coming. 2x damage will make it possible for your villagers to burn it down and stop from construction. So china will have to create some army to defend or just pull all villagers which you can counter by moving your villagers. And taking advantage of fact that his eco is idle.
Lastly arrow-slit for chinese needs cost increase. Because it deals way way more damage then any other civ.
There are multiple mistakes in your statement:
- Chinese outpost building time is like 1.25x faster than other civs (yes not 2x not 1.5x)
- arrow-slit dps is higher than Chinese’s Handcannon. I should say they are different genere
I really think people should play games before talking about balance
2 Likes
China builds towers and keep at HALF their personal listed times. Example a Chinese tower tooltip states it would take 1 villager 1min 8s to build…but one villager builds an tower in 34s!!!
Now i think its a tooltip error that needs to be updated to remove the listed perk that says “china builds defensive buildings 50% faster”; bc its not 50% faster than their personal listed times and not 50% faster than other civ times. Heck there is still a toolitip that says range units will use a weaker attack if a melee unit gets right up in their face???
Also depending on the map villagers take 60s to tranverse the map and in the case of 6 to 10 villagers being pulled that’s something HARD to miss IFF you scouting for it. Bring a scout near the edge of the chinese base around rhe 2min mark AND JUST SIT THERE on patrol. Once you anticipate the vils being pulled start building wall segments on keep bbq drop locations moving scouts in front of the potential bbq spots to delay it being put down. If your own villagers are close enough pull them and start attack xhinese villagers while blocking drop locations with half built wall segments and scout structure placement blocks. EVEN IFFFF he still gets the BBQ down you should have killed 2 vills and likely force him to build it in a less than optimal location.
Two different gaming demographics. You have the players which want to have large battles and players wanting the traditional RTS experience, where you play big through minimalism. I completely sympathize with both views tbh. You can watch a game right now, see an early worker or two kills and know that with equal skill on que, thats going to be a 1400+ resource disparity if the game goes to full term. Not exactly Ceasar crossing the Rubicon. But exciting for those hyper technical players/spectators.
In honesty, the game has the assets to create both experiences. You’ve had to use different game modes. But it has the frame for it. The real question becomes is there the funding, vision and desire too.
Edit: Also worth noting that it would be ambitious to try to cater to both demographics now. Again an Early Access label would have been super helpful.
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The causal players have 3v3 and 4v4 and custom lobby and mods??? What more do they need? 1v1 rank and partly 1v1 qs are for thr try-hards.
What am i missing??