Instead of trying the same tried and true formulae for every civ imaginable, break the tree into regional unit norms and formulae and base civs on them so that way we achieve both diversity and a common playing ground. I see all the time in civ idea discussions on how more civs=less bonuses, less (viable)tech tree varieties, and less wiggle room to grow. IMHO, I think that’s why the devs are relying on gimmick civs so heavily; they don’t have room to grow with the same style for every civ approach. If there are common variant units (and even possibly techs) for every region, you allow an extra avenue for civ bonuses to appear, which in turn allows regional civs to both integrate with their regional units better and free up generic bonuses for those civs that better deserve them. Heck, at that point, civs with no bonus on their RU would be unique as well.
We aren’t facing the same issues with civs that we did in Peterson’s time either Dynasty. The mindset you can have with civ designs at 13 civs is not the same one you can have at 45. Way more bonuses have been tapped, way more avenues of innovation taken. You have to adapt your mindset or risk being left behind by the times and the situation. And that is what I’m trying to do with my suggestion.
Oh come on; I’m not disrespecting you. I like civ theory crafting as well, I’m just coming from another angle from you. You’re a traditionalist with designs and I don’t think anything’s inherently wrong with that. I just think you’re narrowing the scope of what future civs could achieve with your approach, and voicing that opinion. That’s all of what this amounts to, really.
They didn’t as far as I can tell, but they would have had a similar type of warrior that I think the Eagle does a fine job representing. Also their founding lineage was of Chichimecs, similar to the Aztecs, and they recruited warriors from across the empire, like the Aztecs (both civs used Otomi warriors for example). And their founding dynasty was called the Uacúsechas (lit: “Eagles”). So there’s at least enough cultural/geographical proximity that I think it would be strange given the game’s other approximations if they didn’t have eagles.
I don’t really see the point of the eagle/no eagle debate at large though, beyond stating that I think more visual variety is good, but that those who want to keep the game simple/readable ought to be considered. Ideally I would give South American civs eagle warriors, but with optional reskins/renames for people who wanted them.
Mainly though, I’d just be happy enough to get another American civ after a decade or so since the last one, that I’m not inclined to split hairs about exactly how it’s done.
Fair enough, and I did know about how they recruited across their empire, so yes it does make sense. I figured, if any, meso civ wouldn’t have them, they wouldn’t.
I’m not against adding more eagle civs either, and I could live with the Andean civs to have them too, though I wouldn’t think it would be ideal. I’m just stating what I want; a more focused, regional flavor for each regional civ group.
And that’s entirely fine. In the end, all I want is more civs, more campaigns, and all of them to be great content. I just disagree with some on how to go about it.
The concept of a crossbow doesn’t fit for American civs.
Either just make regional skins (something the game should have anyway) or make another regional unit that has different but similar stats to an Eagle Warrior including the Eagle Warrior armour class.
We have civs don’t have knight-line. Can there be a civ with no xbow upgrade but free ballistic and archer UU (+2 base atk with slower rof)? Then make it produce in archery range through UT. I think there can be one american civ having this feature with some eco boni. Native American civs used flatbows.
The gameplan will be very different from ordinary one. But free ballistics with xbow upgrade will be very oppressive. So the archer UU is to replace the xbow. But starting from a castle and UT to allow it to produce in archery range. Maybe let the UU produce in Town Center as well to allow earlier mass at the cost of sacrificing early castle age eco.
Such a new civ would still need to dance around the fact it has neither cav nor gunpowder. Aztecs Mayans and Incas managed to have very different playstyles with these constraints but on what units would new such civs be based, without feeling like a repeat of the former, and without crossing straight into AOE3’s timeline ?
Aztecs and Mayans only have 1 UU. Many new civs have 2 UU and even Unique buildings.
There is a lot of units in AoE3 that we can take inspiration from (ignoring all the gunpowder and cavalry ones of course).
Mantlet: Slow unit with massive shield that has very high pierce armour and is good against buildings
Poison Archer or Blowdart: ranged unit that does damage over time
Bolas Warrior: Slinger that slows down cavalry at range
Tomahawk Thrower: Infantry with ranged melee damage
Clubman: Unit that does AoE damage
All those where used by many different civilisations and would therefor work well as regional units too.
If you think about it we have 45 civilisations and only 3 of them are American.
The set of units the none American civilisations have access to is not that much bigger then one the Americans have and yet there are 42 different civilisations in the Old World.
There is enough room for more American civilisations.
one of the civ bonus: Free ballistics
The production of archer UU in archery range requires castle age UT.
The archer UU can be produced in town center upon reaching castle age.
That defeats the whole point of being an archer civ. Nobody is gonna do thst over eagles because it requires a castle, a likely expensive and time consuming Ut and then you can finally start meanwhile the Aztec or Mayan player has way more crossbows than you can keep up with.
Ballistics is nice sure but crossbow extra range, HP and damage can be far more dangerous
Maybe make the unique archer an upgrade to the archer (similar to the winged hussar, savar & legionary) as otherwise that tech tree looks awful, making archers utterly useless after a few minutes in castle age.
