[Poll] Is Scorpion Ballistics too weak

Hey everyone,

With the latest AoE2 patch, one of the most interesting changes is that the projectiles from both the Heavy Scorpion and Scorpion units are now affected by Ballistics. This means that their shots will better track moving targets, improving accuracy and making them deadlier against units on the move.

My thoughts:

  • Impact on Gameplay: This greatly increase the effectiveness of Scorpions in massed situations, particularly in dealing with cavalry archers or even knight
  • Balancing Concerns: While this makes the Scorpion more viable in a wider range of scenarios, thereā€™s a concern it could make them too powerful, especially when combined with siege-heavy civilizations. On the flip side, some might feel that Scorpions have always been underutilized, and this change could make them more relevant.

What do you all think? Is this buff too overpowered or just the right boost?

  • Too OP, it makes Scorpions too powerful
  • Balanced, itā€™s a fair and needed change
  • Too weak, Scorpions still need more improvements
0 voters

I think it is OP for some civs. Balanced for the rest.

I wonder how it affect Khmerā€™s double bolts. But definitely can be more buff for civs like Bulgarians.

1 Like

People are used to units like Mangonels, Crossbows and Knights to be super strong if they see another unit come close to them they start crying ā€œOP!ā€.
Roman Scoprions with a heavy discount, faster attack speed, reduced minimum range and ballistics were never OP so if Scorpions with that many bonuses are still bad then giving everyone Ballistics is surely not an issue.

Khamer might be a little too strong now since they already had good Scorpions before.

Celts already have amazing Onagers so this doesnā€™t really make them much stronger as a civ overall.

2 Likes

Well, from reddit Iā€™m seeing people are complaining that counter units are not countering scorpions. Someone made a claim which is yet to confirm - 40 paladins lose to 30 celts heavy scorpion which was not the case before.

I think Iā€™ll run a test for myself.

Heraā€™s reaction

If the ballistics scorpion is truly as overpowered as Hera suggest, itā€™s worth asking why we havenā€™t seen Roman ballistics scorpion , who has had the ballistics scorpion since the release of roman DLC at May 16, 2023, dominate the conversation in competitive play. Pro players, who constantly analyze and exploit any potential edge, havenā€™t been vocal about Roman ballistics scorpion being overpowered.

7 Likes

I donā€™t know what the video can prove. Mass scorpions are always strong vs ranged units. Now scorpions require less micro to be effective.

Someone can just make a video of onagers flattening a mass of new scorpions and ā€˜proveā€™ that new scorpions are still ā€˜too weakā€™.

7 Likes

NOOOOOO!!!
SCORPIONS ARE BROKEN NOW!!!
LOOK AT ROMANS!!!
WHAT HAVE DEVS DONE!?!!?!?

What changed with Romans?

THEY NOW HAVE BALLISTICS!!!

Well, actuallyā€¦ Romans had that before alreadyā€¦

SCORPIONS ARE BROKEN!!! DEVS RUINING THE BALANCE AGAIN!!!

8 Likes

I personally think Romans should get an extra something after this Scorpions buff.
This is such a welcome change. It was so irritating to see archers hitting their targets and scorpions missing.

4 Likes

What happened to your profile? I canā€™t see your profile picture nor can get the link to your profile.

1 Like

Units = 30 Celts Heavy Scorpion vs 30 Magyars Paladin.
Place = A choke pint in an actual BF map.

Results -
No Ballistic = Paladin wins all the time with 15% to 40% HP depending on pathing, scorpion stance (aggressive vs stand ground), scorpion targeting.
Ballistic = Paladin barely wins if scorpions are on aggressive stance. Scorpion win with 11 to 18 units left if on stand ground stance.

My conclusion = High PA melee units probably canā€™t counter good scorpions in a choke point.

I am not sure, I cannot login my old account and this is my new account. I also cannot visit my profile page and update my profile pic. I think this is the website issue

I guess with stand ground stance + move attack backward will work better

I want attack ground for scorpion, instead of ballistics. It will bring good micro fight.

1 Like

Problem with attack ground would be bolt would consider miss and do half damage to all units, even direct hit.

In that case, you might have to change scorpion damage to be like chakram thrower, no miss damage (100% damage along the path) but weaker damage.

The question is not really if Scorpions are generally op and generally need to be nerfed because Roman ones were not OP when they had Ballistics.

The question is are the few Scorpions that were string before the change too strong now.
Like Khmer and Celts for example.
Then the bonuses of those civilisations should be adjusted instead of ruining the unit for everyone else.

3 Likes

Not Op but powerful for Khmer against civs which neither have bombard canons nor onagers with siege engineers.

Usually yes. Thatā€™s how unique unit nerf cry posts begin but fortunately this time no. Happy that 89% of the community see it as balanced. Remaining 11% probably use too much infantry in their games.

Might have been a poor melee pathing issue with paladin shuffling around or freezing. Or he might have fought in a black forest choke point area.

Ya sure for content creation. This game must be either one of his 1v3 series against 900 elo players or some ranked game where he matched with someone 500 elo lower than him. Otherwise he almost never makes heavy scorps. Btw most pros are resistant to changes which donā€™t fit their gameplay. I remember that he also wanted ALL unique units nerfed which is crazy imo.

Exactly. That civ also has lower minimum range and 45 gold discount on them by default.

1 Like

And Celts.

35 people.

As I did a test and posted it on a different thread. 30 Paladin lose to 30 Celts FU Scorpion very badly. Not sure about 40 Paladin. I think it will be very small edge to Paladin. Also in my test the choke point was still 8-10 tile wide.

FU Celts scorpion is now way stronger than FU Romans scorpion. Romans need more numbers to match Celts which they can. But usually donā€™t happen as you stop producing scorpions after you reach your preferable number. So you will always see people complaining against 40 Celts Scorpion but wonā€™t see about Romans as they will also have 40 scorpions that are a bit weaker.

Imo they were already op in some team game scenarios where you had Romans and Khmer combined.

100% agree, those two plus Chinese will be a nightmare to deal with.

I think it will not be too powerful in Castle Age, but in Imperial Age, when they get quite easy to mass and all the UTs for the civs mentioned above kick in, this will need some further balance. Maybe they should re-up the upgrade cost of Heavy Scorpions.

1 Like

perhaps slowing the projectile works? Tbh Romans felt very underplayed at first place to begin with.