11 do you understand now paladin frank is op? + free eco it ok for they :)). They need nerf if need change something not buff :))).
I’m pretty sure viets needs a bigger eco bonus. I never understood why franks have 2 eco bonuses. They already have one of the best food bonus (free farm upgrades) and free bloodline.
Lithuanian paladins with 4 relics are not op? 11 Anyways. What nerfs to the Frank would you suggest?
If I had to nerf them, I would just remove one of the two eco bonus. Probably the farms one. And Lithuanian paladins… They might be op, but, again, they might be regular paladins. Depending on how you play them
Lithuanians going for relics and cavalry is almost a given. They don’t have a lot of other options.
Franks could lose their forager bonus but not their farm bonus.
My suggestions for teutons
Ironclad should give units(infantry or cavalry or maybe both fitting with their slow but armored theme) +2 melee and +1 pierce armor and siege units +5 melee,+4 pierce but cost should also be increased accordingly.
Good one and makes sense since they are historicly good at guerilla warfare(which includes foraging off from the land)
Again I like this one
His suggestion actually makes them very similiar lithuanians(with lithuanians actually being better because they get +150 food from the get-go rather having to gather it in first place) and even with just 2 relics(which is very easy to achieve even by an average player) Lithuanian paladins actually destroys current frankish ones and the most likely gonna destroy even so called buffed ones.
I dont think this is needed at the moment keshiks actually very cost effective(40 gold for cav that -20 hp,-3 attack and nearly same armor compared to a paladin)on the gold side and very good unit too.
Hi, Byzantine need bloodlines because they are horse civil, dont need + 4 attack because in castle age +cavalry not good, they still lose Việt cavalry why? It not Counter to paladin. 20%hp it make different in castle age. Or they can get both of tech 11 but I think Just one
I believe both techs(blast furnace and bloodlines) would OP for catas I think one could be chosen but both no for me.
11 the reason I say bloodline is more popular. People dont play death match. Asia never play death match. People use hosre camel in castle age. So need bloodlines more than +4 damage.
Welp actually there are many more explanations than"OPness":
there have been moments in the Beta where the civ pool was Franks, Briton and Vikings only
Brits are the default civ that greets you when you first click on “Single player”, or whenever you reset the settings. Add to that longbows are easy to abuse vs. AI
Many people like to play their country/the civ that represents them best…and many players are British/americans
Ok I don’t understand the deal with Tatars = bad. Even their weakness to camels (after all, all civs need a weakness) can be mitigated by their own camels, and Hand cannoneers. They have no bombard cannons, but trebuchets with more range that allows them to abuse their elevation bonus easier are no joke. They get bombard towers, even on water they have Elite Cannon galleons that will happily blast any building unfortunate enough to be built in a hole… And they have a good eco bonus!
Is this inspired by the fact the trade workshop was planned to be used like that in the AoK beta?
-11 gold on knights/-6 gold on archers won’t change the fact a Malay elephant can crush knights (same for Elite vs Paladins) for less gold, and that Malay get their own good Xbows and skirms.
Welp, it’s true some people won’t ever touch some factions, not even to check whether their ideas on them are right.
Oh, and why nerf Franks? In AoC they were bottom tier so it’s good they got out of that. And the data on aoestats isn’t valid for DE, and the meta in DE isn’t even stabilized yet(and free farm upgrades are worse than Teuton and Chinese bonuses)
I don’t think Franks should be nerf, but I think the idea of buffing them is ridiculous
True. Did I miss a part with Franks buffs proposals?
Yes. Luckily, we still haven’t got any chinese buff proposals 11
Mostly feel like the Teutons need some love.
Teutonic Knight is awesome, love the unit when using siege towers and rams… but the slow speed, while part of the balancing act, is a mite -too- slow. I wouldn’t mind seeing just a minor boost to that (not saying it needs to be like Samurai or anything, just a tad).
Regarding the Teutonic knight; their sprite needs heavy adjustment. Their attack cycle of “Draw-stab-sheath” is odd looking. It should be like the Samurai in this case, who go “draw-attack-attack-sheath when done”.
Teutons need access to at least light cavalry. There’s no good reason why they should only have access to scouts and nothing else.
The suggestion was niether buff nor nerf it was bonus swapping with vietnamese its wasnt a nerf specificly rather it was giving bonus of foraging to vietnamese(which makes sense with their history of guerilla warfare) instead giving franks other stuff to compensate(+%25 hp instead of %20 for cavalry,longer lasting berries like mayans but only for berries)for that.
It would be a nerf, since more berries is worse than fast berries.
It really depends actually you cant just say one is bad or good,I mean longer lasting berries means farms actually delayed(2-3 farmers equals 120-180 wood saved on late dark age or early feudal which is very good bonus).So without testing and trying out its impossible to say one is better or other is not.Also they do recieve buff to cavalry further so their scout rush still wont be weakened at all.
i think the civilization that is further behind is the Vietnamese. As many of you have commented, an early economic bonus would be nice, but I also think their civilisation traits are just poorly designed:
Their archers have more HP, so they do marginally better against other archers.
Then their unique archer is an archer with more pierce armor so, an anti-archer archer.
Then they get the imperial skirmisher upgrade.
They have a lot of options aimed at the same problem and then have no response to other issues. I think maybe they could change the archer HP bonus into an economy bonus (or just add an economy bonus) and rework the rattan archer so it can fill another niche that is not filled already by the imperial skirm. I’m thinking maybe they could give it some armor penetration like the leitis but of course not make it ignore all armor because that would be just crazy on a ranged unit.
I also think it’d make more sense if the team bonus was the reveal enemy starting positions thing. And paper money is a useless tech, it needs to be substituted.
The stats page on this site indicates Malians have the lowest winrate. I assume this is tainted by factoring in all skill levels or simply isn’t updated?
I’m just a noob but this is an interesting discussion and I see Vietnamese come up a lot.