Ok I don’t understand the deal with Tatars = bad. Even their weakness to camels (after all, all civs need a weakness) can be mitigated by their own camels, and Hand cannoneers. They have no bombard cannons, but trebuchets with more range that allows them to abuse their elevation bonus easier are no joke. They get bombard towers, even on water they have Elite Cannon galleons that will happily blast any building unfortunate enough to be built in a hole… And they have a good eco bonus!
Is this inspired by the fact the trade workshop was planned to be used like that in the AoK beta?
-11 gold on knights/-6 gold on archers won’t change the fact a Malay elephant can crush knights (same for Elite vs Paladins) for less gold, and that Malay get their own good Xbows and skirms.
Welp, it’s true some people won’t ever touch some factions, not even to check whether their ideas on them are right.
Oh, and why nerf Franks? In AoC they were bottom tier so it’s good they got out of that. And the data on aoestats isn’t valid for DE, and the meta in DE isn’t even stabilized yet(and free farm upgrades are worse than Teuton and Chinese bonuses)
Teutonic Knight is awesome, love the unit when using siege towers and rams… but the slow speed, while part of the balancing act, is a mite -too- slow. I wouldn’t mind seeing just a minor boost to that (not saying it needs to be like Samurai or anything, just a tad).
Regarding the Teutonic knight; their sprite needs heavy adjustment. Their attack cycle of “Draw-stab-sheath” is odd looking. It should be like the Samurai in this case, who go “draw-attack-attack-sheath when done”.
Teutons need access to at least light cavalry. There’s no good reason why they should only have access to scouts and nothing else.
The suggestion was niether buff nor nerf it was bonus swapping with vietnamese its wasnt a nerf specificly rather it was giving bonus of foraging to vietnamese(which makes sense with their history of guerilla warfare) instead giving franks other stuff to compensate(+%25 hp instead of %20 for cavalry,longer lasting berries like mayans but only for berries)for that.
It really depends actually you cant just say one is bad or good,I mean longer lasting berries means farms actually delayed(2-3 farmers equals 120-180 wood saved on late dark age or early feudal which is very good bonus).So without testing and trying out its impossible to say one is better or other is not.Also they do recieve buff to cavalry further so their scout rush still wont be weakened at all.
i think the civilization that is further behind is the Vietnamese. As many of you have commented, an early economic bonus would be nice, but I also think their civilisation traits are just poorly designed:
Their archers have more HP, so they do marginally better against other archers.
Then their unique archer is an archer with more pierce armor so, an anti-archer archer.
Then they get the imperial skirmisher upgrade.
They have a lot of options aimed at the same problem and then have no response to other issues. I think maybe they could change the archer HP bonus into an economy bonus (or just add an economy bonus) and rework the rattan archer so it can fill another niche that is not filled already by the imperial skirm. I’m thinking maybe they could give it some armor penetration like the leitis but of course not make it ignore all armor because that would be just crazy on a ranged unit.
I also think it’d make more sense if the team bonus was the reveal enemy starting positions thing. And paper money is a useless tech, it needs to be substituted.
The stats page on this site indicates Malians have the lowest winrate. I assume this is tainted by factoring in all skill levels or simply isn’t updated?
I’m just a noob but this is an interesting discussion and I see Vietnamese come up a lot.
On the official AoE site? My guess is that it counts unranked games as well, which will bias the stats because whenever some noob get stomped (either because of smurf or just bad luck) a civ will go up and another one goes down for reasons entirely different thatn their actual strenght.
Doesn’t fix their problem. Teutons are balanced, they’re just boring and their UU sucks. You don’t want to outright buff their UU either, because that’ll make them excessively powerful. You want to give them something that makes them distinct and viable. Something crazy like being able to build towers or heal things or something.
Saracens aren’t bad, they’re just weird. Their Camels already have bonus HP. If they could use anything it’s an enhancement to their team bonus, which is definitely trash-tier.
They need a buff in the feudal age, where they’re actively weaker than they were before, and where they were already very bad. Maybe change their team bonus to +0/1 armor to infantry units.
Khmer are fine.
Mongols are fine.
Indians just need their UU to be viable. Adding BEs is overkill. Their fish bonus is fine.
Turks main trait is bad trash. What they need is a way to stretch their gold longer into the late imperial age to keep them viable in trash wars without trade. Something like, collecting interest on accumulated gold.