Hussars would definitely help in late game, especially if they’re unwilling to give them an actual eco/bonus
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Giving Hussars to Ports will make them even more similar to Spanish and Italians, however.
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It wasn’t very imaginative for another gunpowder Mediterranean civ anyway
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Ports are more Atlantic than Mediterranean, and as far as flavour goes, they really do resemble the historical Portuguese.
I do not believe Hussar would help Ports much anyway, since it is cler they are supposed to ignore Cavalry altogether (no Paladin, not Heavy Cavalry Archer, no Parthian Tactics).
If anything, Ports are suffering from the same issues all Gunpowder civs suffer: HC is just not a good unit.
Caravels are also very situational on Water too, and Organ Guns are nothing to write home about.
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imo, Organ guns is just a worse version of scorpion. They are expensive but need to mass to be effective. However, they can be crushed by onagers very easily. Even scorpion can effectively slay it. Siege tower is the only siege weapon they can deal with. Massing organ guns is just a risky investment. Making organ guns more mobile (i.e. increase the movement speed up to 1) may be a good way to buff it.
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Hussars have sense to Portuguese, they used light cavalry,
Not really, to any significant extent. Portuguese military was Infantry based, and specialized in defensive and naval warfare.
Most Cavalry employed by Medieval Portuguese armies were local mercenaries. Horses did not fit well in the small Caravels, and we did not even try to compete with Spain in the Cavalry department.
Ports military was a whole bunch cuirassed boots on the ground with Guns, Crossbows, Pikes and Halberds.
A few swords here and there too.
I bet he knows much more about this game than you
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Well, at least I know you cannot go Archers with Franks, into the Imperial Age, which Hera does not.
no ones going to remember absolutely everything about every civilization, their is just too much to know.
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For people liking stats, their pick rate has increased, in the sense that now there are 3 civs behind them.
Portuguese are definitely much better now. Imo way superior to Italians and Turks. If you compare with italians (they are very similar until imp) Portuguese are simply better: Italians have a negligible age up discount (75f is nothing in feudal, it is the worst eco in the game), while at least Portuguese have cheaper units.
On castle age, the gold discount really shines…
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Italians and turks still got much better winrates and also pros see them as more useful,according to her as recent tier list. Ports are worse.
Here are some Suggestion I could imagine:
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New bonus: outpost cost no stone (not my idea)
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First feitoria is population cost free. turns it into an actuall imp eco bonus.
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Hand cannons frame delay reduced from 15 to 10 (still double of archers), and HP buffed from 35 to 40 (like arabalest).
Also to consider: increase organ guns, hc and janissary fire rate from 3.49 to 3.1 (conqs have 2.9 currently). -
All bullet projectiles (Jans, conqs, hc, organ guns) need to be investigated, ever since in de it seems when they miss they can’t randomly hit other targets as well anymore. Maybe units got smaller models. Increased bullet hitbox maybe helps hit targets or something. Its very noticable and easy testable with organ guns extra bullets. In HD often at closest distance all bullets would hit. In de even at closest distance it’s rather rare.
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Aquebus needs to be fixed, and buffed, except for BBC which is the only good thing ports currently have.
This tech needs to rock if its their only combat bonus on land.
- Give the organ guns main bullet a very small aoe/trample damage without friendly fire of 3 and 4 for elite. It should work like slav halbs and only damage adjacent units around the main bullets hit target but not the hit target itself in order to not buff the single target damage.
This helps the unit to finally become good against groups of enemys as advertised and would help it destroy groups of archers or trash, which it currently can’t because of fire rate and overkill.
- Caravels gold cost increased from 34.4 to 45(after discount), movements speed increased by 5% (currency same as galleon), train time decreased from 36s (same as galleon) to 32s and 28s for elite, wood cost decreased from 90 (same as galleon) to 80.
The units is too similar in stats to galleons in my opinion. These changes would give Portuguese a unit to fill the lack of shipwright (wood cost and train time). Galleons are mostly better to caravels unless the enemy has longboats or ca. 40+ galleons.
Bonus off topic suggestion:
- Cav archers base accuracy from 50 to 70 and frame delay from 10 to 5-7 (mangudai have 5).
Parthian tactics armor reduced from +1/2 to +1/1.
Makea them more attractive in early castle age and fun to Micro for all civs, slightly nerfs FU cav archers which dominate post imp too much and gives cav archer without parthian tactics a slight better perspective.
FU Cav archers would be better against meele thanks to frame delay but worse against archers since PA nerfed.
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Having palas could be a good buff for tg, but not for 1v1 arabia man
lmao imagine saying that people should not listen to pros opinion in general but to random users on a forum where only sometimes a 16++ reply
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Pick rate is much more important than win rate, by a large margin, and Portuguese are better in arabia, which is 70% of the game.
Also win rates do not mean anything with this difference in picking rate.
Regarding pros, I expect that they are extremely biased by competitive games, where, for instance, the fact that Italians do not have a reliable anti cavalry option does not hurt too much since 50% of the times you are facing Aztecs, Mayans, or Incas.
Tbh, comparing portos with turks is difficult, but they have a very similar playstyle compared to Italians. And I cannot really see a clear advantage of italians over Portuguese (with the exception of hussars).
Portuguese archers are cheaper from the beginning of the game, Italian ones have more armor after a castle tech. I would not say this is an advantage for archers
Regarding cavalry, Portuguese still have a good light cav and superior knights.
Regarding infantry, Portuguese have halabs. Portuguese champion is cheaper but a bit slower. Condos are still a meh strategy. After the buff I expected more condo play but Italians dropped at the worst pick rate in arabia. Missing halabs makes Italians the weakest civ to cavalry in the game, since GC is unplayable because of the huge TT.
Portuguese have cheap siege and SE. Italian BBCs are cheaper only in wood, but missing SE. Plus porto BBCs benefit from a UT.
In addition, the main advantages of italians come in late game only (extra armor for archer, hussars, maybe condos), while the gold bonus is free from the beginning and becomes one of the best in the game in late imp.
Still, despite superior to other civs, Portuguese are weak compared to many others, so I think that buffing their UU could be a nice a idea…
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It’s your opinion man and please stop making every thread about italians
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I think it’s OK to buff Portuguese in water. Granting them access to shipwright may make it to be played more often in water maps aside from Italians and Vikings. But after shipwright buff, it is not OK to buff Caravels. Buffing Caravels with shipwright may be a mess. I would prefer only 1 buff to either shipwright or caravels for Portuguese.
Sorry, I did not explain it in the post. The play rate of arabia is more than 70%. When I said that arabia is 70% of the game, I was meaning that 70% of the games are played in arabia. Maybe I wrote it in the wrong way, sorry for that, but it was not my opinion.
So it is very important to look at arabia. I think this is especially important for Portuguese since they are pretty underwhelming in ara. Similarly to other civs, (not only Italians, but also Turks).
It is definitely ok, but a water buff would not help them at all in land maps, where they need more help. Probably it is slightly better to push for a better eco bonus, even if I would prefer a direct buff to organ guns.
I can recover some ideas to buff Portuguese from other discussions:
- UTs can be researched in the university (very useful in water maps)
- hp navy bonus and water UT switch their effects (the UT should become cheaper). This buff the early game on water
- univeristies and university techs are cheaper
- I have proposed this buff for Italians/Tatars, but it can work also for Portuguese: archery range units can be trained also in barracks and stables
- to boost they idea of extra gold, Portuguese may get a gold trickle equal to 20g/min from feudal. In practice this is similar to one villager advantage (in some situations better, in others worse)
- team bonus changed in: the region around initial TC is explored (a radius large enough to see your boars). Explored means that fog of war is present ofc
- TC techs are 50% cheaper and researched 50% faster. Aging up is not included ofc.
For 1v1s the bonus I like the sound of the most is
- all Economic techs available one age earlier
I don’t know whether it is justified by the flavour of ‘Portugal’ though