Possible New plot solution on obtaining Lakota and Haudenosaunee coins

Argument about mechanics:

I have thought a lot about this matter, because the fur market always seemed like a good idea, but very poorly implemented. I think most of us agree that the mine that magically disappears over time looks kind of ridiculous. But to be frank, it is difficult to come up with an idea that would make mines have a purpose for civilizations that did not practice mining or metallurgy.

That is why it must be seen from a new perspective that somehow indirectly links these civilizations with the mines, and that is why I have thought of a new proposal that could finally make sense of the mines.

As we all know, living beings require minerals to live, but some animals require a much higher proportion of these than other living beings, among these animals are herbivorous mammals. These animals usually visit specific places where they can find these essential minerals, so these places will be very frequented by wildlife. Even many living things require tiny amounts of metals for their body to function." Vanadium, molybdenum, cobalt, copper, chromium, iron, manganese, nickel, and zinc are deemed essential because without them biological function is impaired". Evolution of metal ions in biological systems - Wikipedia

Although in the game they are mines, within my argument I will propose that they will be places where animals can find essential salts to supplement their nutrition called ‘salt licks’.

Implementation way:

Well, I will propose some daring changes, but this in order to get as close to reality as possible.
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Taking into account that many animals gathered in the places where they find salts, or even crossed migratory routes to these places, it shows that salt is of vital importance for wildlife. If we assume that Native Americans identified these migration patterns, they would follow these herds to these gathering points and establish their camps near the herds. That is why I will propose a new type of building called hunting camps that is built near a mine and has the following functions:

When you build a hunting camp near a mine, it will turn into a salt mine with some kind of animation that simulates some bison digging for minerals.

Captura de pantalla (479)

A small herd of bison will appear periodically performing the ‘Buffalo Trail’ upgrade.


The building will generate lots of bison in a larger quantity by performing the improvement ‘Protected hunting territories’ simulating migrations of animals, and that there are no hunters other than their own hunters, so the bison populations are prosperous.

The rate at which animals migrate to mines can be improved with the ‘Controlled Burning’ upgrade. This means an increase in grasslands and a decrease in forests, which means that there are more bison. Native American use of fire in ecosystems - Wikipedia

If there are animals near the mine and the hunting camp, they will approach the mine and simulate that they are consuming salt from the mines, so it will be easier to hunt them.

Because the Native Americans only hunted what they needed for their needs, the camps could also be built near the herds and the herds near these buildings could reproduce slowly, but it is forbidden to hunt the last 3 specimens. (Only for Lakota and Haudenosaunee)

The mines near the hunting camps will not deplete the mines, and you will start with a herd that is equal to the amount of coins that the mine has.

The herds near the hunting camps will not stray from the area.

The Lakota will have more late game bonuses, but the Haudenosaunee will focus more on farming.

The Lakota will replace cows and sheep with deer and bison respectively, which can be spawned in these new buildings, and will have an economy sitting on hunting throughout the game. (Similar to the Mongols of AOE-4)

I do not know how the bisons could give coins or food, so I propose the following:

It could be the two resources at the same time, but at a lower rate of income, or it could simply be an alternative option in the hunting camps (Coins or food), but this would be as if the entire animal was sold and not just the skin.

Note: My general idea is just to give a purpose to the mines, but I don’t know how the fur trade could work. Also eliminate livestock and replace it completely with game animals (bison and deer).


Sources:

https://bullittcountyhistory.org/bchistory/salt.html

https://www.ndstudies.gov/gr8/content/unit-ii-time-transformation-1201-1860/lesson-2-making-living/topic-3-bison-hunting/section-2-lakota-bison-hunt


A Possible New Letter to the Lakota: 'The White Buffalo’

You will receive a white buffalo that will give you 2000 experience and he will be able to work in the square with the rhythm of 5 workers and will count as 5 workers. In case it dies you can create it in the square.

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We do not kill the White Buffalo - the sacredness comes from the ptesan is that they are the sacred animal of Ptesanwi, White Buffalo Calf Woman.
Ptesanwi’s story begins with her literally disintegrating a man who tried to force himself on her - She quite literally turns him to dust, Infinity War style. His hunting partner greets her as the sacred being he knows she is, and she blesses him.

A better way to implement ptesan would be to have them able to be tasked on the Community Plaza as a more effective villager.

ADD: For those coming by later, the original quote stated that slaughtering the white buffalo would give a huge XP boost. I explained why that was a bad idea.

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It is a very beautiful animal to be slaughtered, so I like your suggestion better. XD

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Gameplay wise i don’t think it’s a good idea to tie gold income to hunting or animals in any way. Yes, it is less than ideal from a history accuracy perspective, but it is not the end of the world. Also, transforming mines and all that is still weird from a gameplay perspective.

What could be done is make lakota focus more on estate/plantation gold gathering from the beginning of the game, which is something no other civ does. They are already very food heavy, so their hunters are still out in the danger.

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Ideally, the Lakota specifically would lack access to both the estate and the farm - the Lakota did neither, and the one tribe of the Lakota that did was noted as so odd for doing so that they were literally named for it.
(Mnikhowizu - “Plants Near the Water”, if you were curious.)
Mniconjou Support should be a card that sends a farm or estate travois and enables the farm or estate to be buildable, but with a hard cap of 1.

It is not too difficult. It would be like the Mongols of AOE-4.

You can replace the farm and estate with something lakota specific, that would be even better, but the main mechanics behind them should be similar. Like the haciendas.

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Long-term food is easy enough, just some way to produce bison over time. My own mod just produces bison over time from town centers, with cards decreasing the spawn time.

Long-term gold is harder. Currently, I’ve made it so that villagers passively produce gold while collecting resources, but at a rate of 0.05/second. They work together with the Fur Trade buildings, which I’ve turned into something akin to Torps, but only gather gold from mines and food from hunts. They can’t gather wood.
While nearby, the inherent gold trickle from villagers is increased by 300%, and there’s a line of upgrades available in the Fur Trade that upgrades the trickle by a small %.

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I for one can’t tell why the current fur trade marketplace can’t be an infinite source of gold akin to plantations but with extra gathering when near a gold mine (and gather gold from it for extra rate).

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i think because age 1 plantations for 25w is probably a really bad idea

Before DE was released, when it was announced that Lakota will be reworked, I had imagined it will be completely new civ. But they decided not to alienate too many of the old players. And imo, the current implementation is good enough to bypass historical and cultural inaccuracy, and still be compatible with ingame mechanics.

I had my own ideas about it, although i admit with very little knowledge about both civs. That they will not gather coin at all but a pseudo -coin resource gathered by converting a mine to ‘sacred ground’ and gathering an export/fervor/faith like resource. It would be 1:1 replacement of coin, Kinda like the mountain monastery of Ethiopia.

What is the logic of selling skins near a mine and then this mine disappears?

I understand that the goal was to leave the gameplay almost intact, but is it the best they came up with?

Much of the bad reviews was for some changes in the campaigns and the “mining” mechanics of these 2 civilizations.

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So they can be upgraded to full plantations then with extra wood costs.

It is the same logic by which cows give xp to indians, or shrines generate income out of thin air. The game is not a simulation game, some amount of abstraction is expected.

But tbf, even i was let down by this implementation in the beginning.

Mountain mines for Ethiopians are not useless after the mine expires, so the fur trade should have another function after the mine is exploited

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Because cows are sacred.

It looks like a kind of Japanese version of the cottage, so it would make sense too.

I agree and that is why the game has the mechanic called ‘metropli’, but each of the cards has an argument based on reality or something cultural.

The relationship of the fur market with the mines simply does not fit in the head. It feels like selling beer in a toy store or pharmacy, or putting a butcher shop in a graveyard.


In fact, I have proposed that the mines not disappear. It could be similar to how the Japanese do not kill animals, but this time it would be that the mines are not depleted, but they will give a lower income.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think it would make more sense.

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Yes, totally this.
Mines couldn’t be mined by enemies if a Fur Trading post (or any building name of your choice) is adjacent. Also, the mountain mines give Influence to Ethiopians (even I don’t like this too much because Hausa is better using/generating Influence)

The lakota/haude building should give them a ‘‘workaround’’
Preserving the mother nature resources would be: not allowing them to be exploited (and goes with the Aoe3 motif about exploration and native people that defends its land). Just like Shrines give XP to Japanese and no one can hunt them.

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@IkoKnight8151 should send my comment above forward to Aoe3 team :sweat_smile:

The new hunting camp building could be a cross between a fur market and a hunting camp (forgive the redundancy).

It could be this way:

It allows 10 workers, but it is divided into 2 tasks.
In one part you can work in the fur market where you will get coins, and in the other part you can hunt and the animals will not flee from there. (Maximum of 5 in the fur market and 5 in hunting)

In this way, it is represented that the hunted animals are used for skin and meat, but that the tasks are divided.

You can hunt normally without the need for this building, but to get coins it will be necessary to build it.

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but does it though, really? :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: If it is a cottage, shouldn’t it only generate coin? How is it producing wood? Are customers paying in logs of wood for a night of stay?

We shouldn’t think too hard about these things lol. We can just make a reason that these mines are perfect site for fur trading, and since natives ignored these sites, they just get buried and become normal land as time passes or something like that.