Post your balance proposals, keep em simple

I’ll start

Bohemians

  • Lose access to Onager
    Lose cutting ability on Rage Forest and also a flavor thing for having Houfnice like Turks have high HP Artillery BBC|

Dravidians

  • Urumi Swordsmen pierce armor increased from 0 → 1 pierce and cost adjusted from 65 food 20 gold → 55 food 25 gold
    Making them less vulnerable to skirmishers while balancing the food/gold cost

Portuguese

  • Gain access to Hoardings
    Portugal has around 150 standing castles today as well as many forts in its previous colonies

Tatars

  • Gain access to Architecture
    Tatars primarily represent the Timurid empire and there are iconic buildings built around that time in Bukhara and Samarkhand which still survive today

Teutons

  • Gain access to Gold Shaft Mining
    Teutons are heavily reliant on gold heavy units post castle age and have terrible trash units. Civs lacking this tech either have discounts on military units or have really good trash units and Teutons break this pattern.

Vietnamese

  • Cav archers no longer affected by the extra HP bonus
    Civ should be focused around foot archers and skirmishers than randomly having a top 5 cav archer. Kipchak from Cuman mercenaries are also affected by this bonus for some reason despite being a castle unit and the Rattan archer is not affected by it, weird.
6 Likes

3K removed from ranked

10 Likes

It makes little difference if an UU is affected by its civ’s bonuses, or have the bonus’ effect immediately in its base stats, as it’s the only civ to have it, with very few exceptions.

GENERAL

  • Deer and chickens can no longer be pushed or funneled.
  • Siege Engineers no longer affect ships.
  • Market initial food price decreased from 150 to 140.

CAMEL RIDER

  • Now costs 65 food, 50 gold.
  • Cavalry bonus damage increased from +9 → +10.
  • Gains +2 bonus damage vs. Elephant armor class.

HEAVY CAMEL RIDER

  • Gains +4 bonus damage vs. Elephant armor class.

IMPERIAL CAMEL RIDER

  • Gains +4 bonus damage vs. Elephant armor class.

BRITONS

  • +1 pierce armor to Longbowman (Elite Longbowman unchanged).
  • Elite Longbowman upgrade cost decreased to 750 food, 650 gold.

HINDUSTANIS

  • Shatagni cost decreased to 500 food, 300 gold, but now provides +1 range and shorter attack delay (0.2) instead.

MAGYARS

  • Magyar Huszar: –5 HP and –1 attack.

SPANISH

  • Conquistador: Attack dispersion reduced to 0.65.
  • Elite upgrade cost reduced to 1000 food, 500 gold.
  • Missionaries are no longer affected by cavalry armor upgrades.

TURKS

  • Janissary: Food cost decreased by 5, +1 attack, +10% accuracy, and attack dispersion reduced from 0.75 → 0.5.
  • Elite Janissary: +5% accuracy, attack dispersion reduced from 0.75 → 0.5, and elite upgrade cost reduced to 600 food, 500 gold.

WEI, WU, SHU

  • Removed.
2 Likes

What’s the issue about that ? It makes sense that siege ships are affected by a tech that improves cannons and catapults.

1 Like

Remove goth,hun, roman, celt, let see :)))

  • Teuton Castles are not meant to be outranged and quickly destroyed by non-elite Cannon Galleons.
  • Korean Towers are not meant to be outranged and quickly destroyed by non-elite Cannon Galleons.
  • Turk Bombard Towers are not meant to be outranged and quickly destroyed by non-elite Cannon Galleons.
  • Artillery was supposed to provide a +2 range advantage over other Cannon Galleons, not +1.

Ok here we go:

Armenians:

  • Galley and Dromon Extra projectile bonus moved into Cilician Fleet UT, UT cost raised from 350w 300g to 450w 500g.
  • New Civilization Bonus: Monks cost 20% less. (Warrior Priest cost adjusted to balance it)

(The civ is still wayy too powerful on Water maps, while bieng rather weak in many ways on pure land maps, especially in the late game).

Aztecs:

  • Carry Capacity bonus buffed to +4 (If Poles and Slavs got their eco bonuses back to original values then I don’t see why Aztecs should be left behind).

Bengalis:

  • Standard Ratha: -1 melee armor, trample damage locked behind Paiks UT.
  • Mahayana wood cost reduced from 800w to 600w.

(Castle Age Rathas shouldn´t dominate melee fights that easily without investing more into the unit, especially insane in RP strats, Mahayana is rather too expensive to be used)

Bohemians:

  • Lose access to Siege Engineers
  • Only the first mining techs are free
  • Elite Hussite Wagon range increased from 6 to 7.

(Houfnice is still too good by having anything that BBCs have but straight up better+ faster speed with Wagenburg Tactics, Losing SE means other civs with SE and BBCs can have an advantage while forcing Bohemins to use their Trash Monks, nerfing the mining techs bonus is to just slow down their cheese low eco games with the UU (that is buffed in Imperial if anything) and Monks behind).

Bulgarians:

  • New Civilization Bonus: Barracks and Siege Workshops cost -75 wood.
  • (Elite) Dismounted Konnik HP increased by 5.

(Bulgarians need their infantry and siege aspects somewhat enchnaced, even after all infantry and map changes, the civ barely see play at any skill level).

Burmese:

  • Arambai gold cost reduced from 60g to 50g (They aren’t the threat they used to be 5 years ago, they need more viability in Imperial).

Burgundians:

  • Flemish Militia Speed buffed from 0.9 to 0.95.

Franks:

  • Cavalry HP bonus staggered to be 15%/20%/25% in Feudal/Castle/Imperial age.

(From being the favourite ones on the who was needing a nerf years ago to be now another civ fallen behind by powercreept, this nerfs their scout play where it is too good, while keeps them the same in castle age and in Imperial their Paladins have a better highlight).

Georgians:

  • Cavalry HP regeneration no longer Includes Light Cavalry and Cavalry Archers, just Knights and Monaspas, values set to be 15 HP in Castle Age, 20 HP in Imperial.
  • Svan Towers UT no longer grants +2 attack to Towers.
  • Lose Access to Plate Mail Armor.

(This Civilization is still just too powerful in the late game with the best defenses, wide tech tree and top late game economy, while also having a rather too good play with Cavalry Archers taking less damage from hills and less pop space with Aznauri Cavalry, and having top 3 Hussar spam with self regen, less pop space, and even less damage taken in hills??? with FU halbs and viable Skirms?? 11 Oh and then you have those Keeps that are actually broken at that point of the game, these changes aim to make the civ less flexible at those pints of the game while still respecting the early game and Church eco, while also putting more empahsis on their Heavy Cavalry Units, especially the Monaspa that got nerfed recently).

Incas:

  • Slinger: Training time increased from 25 seconds to 30 seconds

(Incas have wayy too oppressive MUs vs infantry civs in castle age all thanks by how easy to mass Slingers in Castle age)

Japanese:

  • Fishing Ship HP bonus stagered to be 15%/20%/25/30% in Dark/Feudal/Castle/Imperial, Dark age fishing rate removed.
  • (Elite) Samurai melee armor increased from 1 to 2, and now take -3 damage from Unique Units.

(Japanese is rather too powerful on Hybrid maps, consistent pick on tournaments for instance, Samurai got greatly improved but still doesn’t feel anti UU enough).

Jurchens:

  • Grenadier: Cost changed from 35f 65g to 45f 60g, training time increased from 21 seconds to 26 seconds.
  • Iron Pagoda: Cost changed from 80f 55g to 60f 65g, PA of standard reduced from 3 to 2.

(Like Slingers, Grenadiers are also too good at this point of the game, while Iron Pagodas cost aren’t well reflected in their perfomance, but their PA is adjusted to make unit balanced in Castle age for the new food cost).

Khitans:

  • Scout Cavalry no longer affected by the 25% faster training/upgrading bonus.
  • More nerfs to the Pasture eco.
  • Mounted Trebuchet: Blast radius increased from 0.5 to 0.65, Range increased from 10 to 11, Hazard effect duration increased from 8 seconds to 12.
  • Ordo Cavalry: Now grants one additional Projectile to Mounted Archers.

(A civ that has such early economy, x2 effect from attack upgrades and the Imperial age UT, which allows to win vs generic Hussars, doesn’t need 25% faster training and upgrading on ther Light Cavalry, jsut makes the opressive in the area where they are already good at, while the other changes aims to make the Khitan late game improved a bit, especially highlighting the Mounted Trebuchet as a True anti-unit weapon).

Khmer:

  • Lose access to Blast Furnace
  • Tusks Swords effect boosted from +3 to +5 attack.

(The civ barely see their BEs used despite being labelled as an elephant civ due to how easy is to spam FU hussars with their farm bonus, losing BF make their late game non BE unist weaker, while the Tusks Swords change is a clear buff to ther BE play in 1v1s).

Lithuanians:

  • (Elite) Leitis: Cavalry armor class reduced from 0 to-1

(Currenlty 2 relic boosted Elite Leiciai are doing far too well vs Halberdiers (Killing in 3 hits while needing 5 to die) and Heavy Camels (Both killing 7 hits but Leiciai winning due to the better ROF), the change should make the unit fairer for the low gold cost against counter units (exactly needing one fewer hit to kill), in a similar way how Monaspa was nerfed, while also keeping them as a melee Killer vs Paladins, other Infantry and high melee armor units).

Malians:

  • Gbeto: speed reduced from 1.25 to 1.2 (Castle age Gbetos are bit too good in most situations).

Malay:

  • Plate Mail Armor isn’t free anymore (Malay are just too versatile thanks by the timing advantage, and going Arbalest + Halbs in Imperial, as well Karambit Spam is wayy too easy due to that bonus, losing the last infantry armor for free makes that bonus fall off in Imperial).

Persians:

  • Parthian Tactics now cost 50% less on top of being available in Castle age.

(The civ is now in a good spot since the Savar upgrade cost nerf, but this aspect is rarely used and should be considered more often).

Poles:

  • Szchlacta Privileges cost increased from 500f 300g to 700f 400g
  • Lechitic Legacy effect reduced from 33% to 25%.

(After the return of the former Folwark, is vey obvious why has to be nerfed in first place, these aspects of the civ should be nerfed).

Portuguese:

  • Gold discount bonus only limited to military units (monks excluded).
  • Team bonus reduced from 25% to 15%.

(Portuguese have way too much versatility at any point of the game, behaiving like Chinese but with Cannon access, while being a better monk civ than Lithuanians?).

1 Like

General:

  • Make Market as affordable as it used to do back in the days when RedPhosphoru rush wasnt a thing from Castle Age onwards.
  • Introduce Tarwal Swordsman for regional replacement for Indian civs. Available as LS replacement. It’ll be high HP and a bit faster but less attack as they lack proper mobile units that can soak damage while being effective. Civs like Dravidians needs it like a lot. It wont be similar to Woad Raiders this way.

Bengalis:

  • Give 10% villager population reduction from Dark Age. Giving Mahayana for free.
  • Rework Mahayana into something new and better. Something like Farms and Fish Traps lasting more. Reflecting its history.
  • Give them Gunpowder access.
  • Instead of TC giving 2 vils each age, make it giving vils Castle Age onwards when each TC built. It’ll spawn respecting pop space in mind. Therefore you wont be able to exploit going beyond 200 pop.

Bohemians:

  • Remove Redemption, Their Castle Age push is far too strong in closed maps.

Saracens:

  • Make their Market as good as it used to do while still having Market bonus from Dark Age. Market changes has killed old Smush. This’ll atleast make it somewhat worthwhile.

Will that work? Map like these are played on TG settings all the time. And someone from the same team will have a civ with not just Onager but SO.

I agree with it. Bohemians got oppressive Monk and strong Siege. You have to cut the Monk from here. Monk + Hussites + Onager + Pike is so deadly to deal with…

AZTECS

  • 15 carry ressources by villagers (back in the old times)
  • Access to hallebardiers

CAMEL CIVILISATIONS

  • +3 atk bonus to elephants
  • +1 pierce armor

Aztecs Inca Maya

  • Xolotl Warrior is affected by infantry armor upgrade. No longer affected by cavalry armor upgrades

You will sometimes see this unit in MegaRandom, and maybe once every 100 games on a “normal” map. Making it possible to increase their armor value would make the unit at least somewhat usable in those rare cases.

1 Like

Some balance proposals:

  • Lose Siege Engineers: Ethiopians, Portuguese, Bohemians. Elite Organ guns and elite Hussite wagon get a free extra range
  • Trample damage (Druzhina, Logistica) increased from 5 to 7, but is affected by melee armor.
  • Hindustanis: shatagni range increase down from +2 to +1.
  • Portuguese Feitoria tickle from 90f,42w,60g,18s/min to 140f,60g,18g/min
  • Spanish: trade team bonus becomes a civ bonus, faster building becomes the team bonus.
  • Aztecs villager capacity capacity up from 3 to 4
  • Lituanians: damage from relics changed from “+1 per relic you own (max 4) to “+1 per relic your team owns (max+3)”
  • Market: revert the initial food/wood price from 150g back to 130g.
1 Like

In this case just bring the units into the game and give meso civs the possibility to produce Xolotls. It’s already almost impossible to produce Xolotls. And in case they become stronger, then your opponents will be more careful and delete stables before conversion.

For Mayans it’s even more impossible. They must convert a monk that have redemption.

Celts and Goths lasted well into the middle ages and White Huns did as well

1 Like

too late, not gonna happen. We’re keeping it simple and suggesting changes that are likely to be implemented

I’m not actually suggesting Rattans be affected, I just want it to be consistent behaviour.

Many people are looking at this unit from a scenario editor perspective than an actual game. It still makes no sense to make MH over Hussars which are cheaper and you can place 20 stables but you’re unlikely to build more than 5 castles in a standard 1v1 and Paladins are the superior unit in team games

Are they that powerful now to justify that drastic of a change? I’d rather remove the HP increase if they are really broken.

Really great design idea but their winrates currently dont justify a nerf right now, BE are still too easily countered by halbs in 1v1s and nobody wants to talk about nerfing halb bonus vs elephants

They might as well remove it, lacking bracer makes the cav archer hard to justify investing in

Their win rates are below 50% and their late game tech tree have pretty big holes, I think they restored Folwark for a reason

thats a serious early game nerf, vill pop in dark age is never an issue so I dont know where you’re going with this

Well ofc, it was more of a flavor change really

I dont understand why is everyone obsessed with this one, melee Elephants are still rarely used in 1v1, camels dont need a buff in team games and they do beat Elephant archers and Ballitsta Elephants reliably.

1 Like

Not every civilization gets Pikemen. One of them wasn’t even designed with these elephants in mind.

Turk-posting. That’s why.

Just spam posts about buffing Turks, until others join in to try and buff a favourite civ/civ they are nationalistic about.

2 Likes

I like this change. But maybe Castle age HC also need some nerf.

It buff Fast imp Feitoria strategy even more. Not a fan of this.

They are already amazing civ in closed map with best tower rush, best anti-monk civ and strong imp unit. Really not need a buff.

Their trash is surprisingly decent. Not to mention halbs which can beat every halb except Dravidians or Burmese their scout can beat Korean hussars or Britons light cav.

I agree. I don’t think top tier CA fit their identity.

1 Like