I heavily doubt that. Saving 550 wood versus saving 200 stone has a clear winner, if we compare Britons and Bulgarians, its more of a go TC and have towered before or go Krepost faster bonus than anything that makes you go heavy FC Boom
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No houses means no wood spent on houses, no time spent building houses and vipers favorite, not getting housed.
Also cheaper cav archers.
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Correct, and it’s absolute trash. Most games you don’t go for more than 3 TCs, that’s 100 stone and it comes late, in Castle. Their milita-line upgrade is actually an eco-bonus as well and the first one, militia into maa is actually good, but it’s still very weak comparatively.
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how much time is saved not building all those houses? How much is saved on cav archers?
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I fear this discussion derails a bit. But I would say its better to distinguish between two kinds of Eco Bonuses: Boom bonuses and non-Boom bonuses. Saving ressources for techs and army is not real boom bonus, because it does not serve your exponentially increasing boom with that you can have huge amounts of ressources in your bank after some time. Saving ressources on units or techs first requires you to research/train them to benefit you, second they are only linearly affecting your ressource bank, while any investment into your eco via villagers, eco techs will lead to a non-lineary growth. And in that fact the hunnic house-bonus is also Boom bonus, since it means that you can save woodchoppers for making houses and villager idle-time i.e. time they are not gathering ressources in early stages of the game which can snowball into a better eco later compared to a civ that needs to do that.
Ofc you can destroy the other opponents eco with better army and get relative huge advantage that way but you need to do damage with that before your investment pays off any way
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Saving resources via cheaper techs does have advantages. You can afford them sooner, which means you get them before your opponent. Imagine if you had a bonus that made your eco techs half off and researched in half the time. Does it sound like a big advantage? Not at first but you can click the tech sooner and then it completes faster too. If you are playing optimally you shouldn’t have a huge bank of resources because that means those resources aren’t being USED. which is fine in a late game situation where you are pop capped but outside of that? You shouldn’t be banking resources unless you’re trying to age up.
If you watch some pro games you’ll see their always ridiculously low on resources, because they spent it the moment they have enough for the next unit, building or tech that matters. On top of this their production queues usually have no more then 1 or 2 units in it at the same time.
Are all eco bonuses equal? not even close. And they never will be
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The last one is the real bonus, and it’s not an eco bonus. The first 2 are side notes, since Spanish spend less time than huns building, and a lot more civs saves a lot more wood.
Then bizz should have the best eco bonus (and so the best eco) following the reasoning.
Again, Bulgarians overall are a better civ than other civs with properly eco bonus.
Magyars are a good civ without and eco bonus, and they don’t need one, italians have a discount on aging up (not an eco bonus but still something saved, without counting the water) and yet they are worse than Bulgarians, goths always had an eco bonus (hunt) and yet before they give them free loom (which is far stretch to be called an eco bonus) they were considered trash.
So yes, in my opinion a civ to be good don’t need an eco bonus. Or at least they don’t need a “good” eco bonus.
It all factors in. Yeah your only saving 500 to 650 wood (ish) but you’re also saving yourself 8 to 10 minutes of build time (which is another 500 to 600 resources minimum).
Not saying it’s Uber, just they have 2.
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Some people suggested to receive some stone, loke 50, while aging up, others suggested a cheaper blacksmith, and other suggested that the team bonus could be higher with every age.
The free unit for every building is interesting, but I dont know if it should only work for the first building of each type (one militia, one archer, one scout, one konnik and one ram, not a powerful bonus but nice for rushes), or if it would be spammable (you build 10 stables, you receive 10 scouts, that is 800 food). I dont know also if it should include monks, ships and trade carts.
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Again, it’s nice, but if you confront them with others more aimed and specific bonus (wood saves/gathered, faster building) it’s not that great.
???
Okay Bulgarians fans got one to run by you
Bulgarians tcs now cost no stone. If needs balancing remove x amount of starting stone
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It could also be interesting the other way around:
Bulgarians start with 300stone
Then you could decide between going straight one TC Kreppost, selling stone to get to castle age quicker (and still be able to build one TC), going 4 TC or investing into towers.
That would actually give them lots of options.
But might also lead to them becoming a tower civ. Nobody wants another tower civ…
Some people said thst 25 stone per TC is too cheap, as you can drop 8 TC in castle with that. Imagine with no stone.
Also, as TC can be used ss defensive buildings, you could spam the map with TC with just one villager in them. They still take the population of the villager, but noone can spam turrets as easily because of the stone prize
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I get the feeling that Bulgarians are a civilization that reward a solid build order, rather than a civilization that helps the player ramping up. I also think that they are designed around a kind of half-boom half-UU spam, through the stone discount of TC and the Krepost.
One rhing I noticed though is in a match-up between a base Knight and a base Konnik, is that the Knight has a slight advantage. While having 2 less attack, its faster RoF gives the Knight the ability to kill the Konnik faster. The Dismounted Konnik offset that result, but the Bulgarians still ends up losing all the mounted advantages of the Konnik, which in return puts a lot of importance on Stirrups.
Lowering the RoF of the Konnik even by just 0,1 would give him a better chance in a Knight vs Konnik duel, which means Stirrups would be a bit less mandatory, making a Krepost rush more viable.
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Well, I agree that cheap age up has to be counted as eco bonus. But this is a weak eco bonus, very weak since otherwise they would be OP on water.
This is extremely important and would be a good eco bonus alone.
Sort of. Cheap units is an eco boost, but it is not versatile…
Bulgarians are definitely good.
In feudal they save an important amount of resources if opening maa, plus the research time. Some civs have much less, like Italians on land (75f bonus), or even Saracens before the market. They can build a tower without the need to take stones from TCs.
In castle age cheap TC is a boost. You have a +100 stone if you drop 2 tcs for your krepost. Also more TCs and kreposts protect by raids. Free longsword vs meso.
Still I like the idea of cheap siege, but it not urgent. I would pick it btw
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would say this is beyond OP in certain games (like late imperial, when wood means nothing) ill be spamming TCs like you wont believe, i said the same about 25stone.
thats why i prefer the “gain 50 stone” from castle age or whatever value… so it doesnt help their good twr rush(like a “start with + x stone” would) , but it does help either their eco or a faster castle to get that MUCH needed strrups, but doesnt overlap with franks since its a once off, so in the long run you wont suddenly have more castles or even close to as many as inca or franks…
YAYYY!! i can build 4 TCs because i dont need to harvest 200 stone, BUT i still need to harvest
ONE THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED WOOD, and then follow that withh 200 food every 25 seconds to capitilise on those TCs! YAY!! 
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Most likely you can’t afford 5 (4) tc boom and military in the same time.
If you don’t need military (arena tg) you usually fc with 24+2 you can’t 5(4) tc boom insantly because you don’t have the food eco to produce from 5 town centers.
You need 6 farms/tc to create villagers. When you arrive to the Castle Age you have 6-8 (arena, boom) farms and you want to spend the food you’ve collected in Feudal Age and make 2 new town centers. I think it’s impossible to 5 tc boom after you reached the Castle Age.
In Arabia it’s a different story because you need military and villagers at the same time so you can’t usually afford 5 tc (4 is possible, even if you add the tc later) boom even if you have a good economy (~16 farms) after your scout rush
If you feel they need an eco boost, why not faster stone mining? There are faster resource gathering bonuses for all other resources except this one. Maybe make it only 10% but it’ll help.
Then the become a tower civ.
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Or a Krepost Drop civ, since they are more resource-efficient than Castles.
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