Don’t get me wrong. Chu kos are amazing, and chinese have an excellent tech tree. Maybe the only civ that can play anything (except monks, and that’s just nowadays) but they don’t have a clear advantage in all ages, like Lithuanians do. And without castles, they post imperial is nothing really exceptional. That’s why I think they’re okey (excellent civ, not op)
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How often are we seeing pros get more then 3?
Reducing it to 2? For a bonus you have to actually work for? Laughable bonus compared to other civs.
This could work.
This could work, but then their spears become inferior to most civs.
As you said this does almost nothing for arabia and honestly the normal leitis isn’t even a problem.
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Actually, I prefer to leave Lithuanians alone. I was trying to get what Furtherlime mean.
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I didn’t do all the calculations myself but other people did and the result apparently was that 2 relics is the magical number for if you take a look at how many hits the knight line and leitis need to take down important units at the respective stages of the game, for a lot of instances it doesn’t make a difference if you get 2,3 or 4 relics. Of course, there oftentimes is other units (like your own skirms) or defensive buildings involved that do some damage and so on but the general consensus seemed to be that 2 relics is what’s most important.
I wouldn’t call myself in the position to judge which relic number cap would work best but I bet there is a reasonable one. This needs a decent amount of testing, though. And your right that in most instances people don’t manage to bring in more than 3 relics but sometimes (including pro games) the Lithuanian player starts off with 1 tc aggression to secure the map and get 4+ relics. Even if that isn’t the norm it still limits their possibilities a little bit which, at least imo, is all Lith need, don’t think they’d need a huge nerf.
Exactly but if their early game and/or extra damage knight play gets nerfed we’ll probably see more games that go to imp and then people will complain again that leitis is too cheap. That’s basically what happens with people who play arena. Most do not consider them op because of their below average mid-game eco they can be taken down but if they manage to safely reach their desired composition (leitis and skirms) you are very likely to die against that unless you happen to play a civ with good units against them (like teutons or incas).
I think nerfing their mid and late game both would be excessive.
Not gonna read the rest for now since im busy…
Way to mis read what other people said…
The bro said buff the plumed archer in compensation for the archer nerf.
Even then even if we ignore the plume buff. Mayans with their great eco, still cheap plumes, xbows that can flatten bases and amazing eagles will be nerfed into obscurity? Lolz
They’re literally one of the only civs that not only has a massive discount on a unit, but also receives a super strong UT for that cheap unit AND isn’t tech locked down one avenue of attack… Example britons have amazing archers but are tech locked. Mayans can switch from amazing double buffed archers into OP eagles…
Yes… Yes you are implying exactly that…
basically you make them entirely dependent on getting a castle up for everything. at least with cheaper archers they have options besides “rush a castle”.
i’m thoroughly against buffing plumes as is because they are already a very strong unit. they were literally nerfed for a reason.
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Hi everyone, it’s being a long time. Onestly I expected no balance changes this month, since aoe3de was released at the same time, and new balance changes would have brought the spotlight back to aoe2.
I think that the balance changes will monthly alternate between aoe2 and aoe3, so to avoid that one of the 2 remains with too few players.
So, just to share some ideas for an eventual new balance changes for November (it could be even December onestly).
- Bulgarians:
I think that this one of the most difficult civ to balance, a lot of people wants an eco bonus for them, but onestly with their powerful military, they could become too OP, so here are some middle ground suggestions:
- blacksmith work 80% faster, or at least 60/70/80% faster, considering that malians have university that works 80% faster, it seems balanced to me.
- krepost can research elite Konniks and the 2 UT, castles though would still be needed for trebs, petards and common upgrades.
- TC don’t require any stone, this is an indirect eco bonus, this way you can either go for a fast castle push with krepost and knights/Konniks, or booming without the need of putting vills to stone.
- Portuguese:
I think that for them a couple of small buff would be enough:
- Give them squires, for their halbs
- Give them a tech for free as a bonus for an extra help, some ideas could be: xbows upgrade, redemption, bloodlines, any of those or similar techs could work.
- Koreans:
Just extend the wood discount to siege, but reducing it to 10/15%.
- Turks:
- Increase the gold bonus to 33% faster gathering rate, so that they can significantly put less vills on gold, and more on food/wood.
- Let sipahi affect light cav, even with knights wouldn’t be that OP.
- Chemistry is unlocked in castle age (gunpowder still come in imp) so their CA can have +1 attack earlier.
Either one of those would help them in my opinion.
- Italians:
Well I think that everyone knows what I think about them, so let’s just move on…
- Lithuanians:
Increase by a bit the letis cost.
- Tartars:
Just a small bonus that animals don’t rot, this would allow them a bit more flexibility with their sheep bonus, and a little bit more food.
- Huns:
Change the atheism UT to something useful, not powerful, just useful.
- Indians:
Give the EA +1 range to compensate their slow speed.
- Japanese:
Increase the speed of the samurais, to differentiate them from their champs a bit.
- General:
- Decrease the cost and TT of the HC, to incourage their use more.
- Reduce the frame of the CA, but not at levels of HD.
Those for the most are just random thoughts, so any feedback (both positive and negative) are good feedback.
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Not me
Considering that University is one building and blacksmith another one I think its quite imbalanced. University is basically only used for fast ballistics while fast blacksmith affects the game from feudal and every player pocket or flank. It is fine to have it at 50% only, fast fletching is really a game changer.
Imagine free redemption or bloodlines or xbow 
Do you know the history of the game? In AoK, town center don’t require any stone for all civilization and got range upgrade from blacksmith. And town center was used to offensively as build near enemy’s base to attack. So, 100 stone cost was introduced in AoC and blacksmith range upgrade no longer affect town center.
Town center should cost at least some stone to prevent using it as offensively or like alternative of Tower or Castle.
Other two suggestion for Bulgarians seems Ok. But I think Stirrup cost should increase littlebit if it is available in Krepost. Its cost is actually very cheap compared to its effect.
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I’ll repeat them, it’s enough to not talk too much about them.
- reduce the TT and cost of the elite upgrade for GC.
- archers have +1 base PA as a bonus.
- foot archers are trained 25/30/35% faster
- archer armor tech are free upon reach any age.
Of course I meant only one of those, but it could be another tech.
Well, in feudal 50% could be enough (60% would be better in my opinion) but as you go on with the ages, the 50% become more meaningful, so that why I proposed 60/70/80%.
Yeah but since AoK a lot of other things have changed, so maybe now it could work for just a civ out of 35.
None of these ideas solve the 2 issues turks have:
No answer to arbalest and insta GG when gold runs out.
Sorry to hurt your identity feelings guys, but turks need elite skirmishers.
And korean siege wouldn’t do the trick. Koreans have nothing for them going on in land maps. Wood discount is insignificant, and their tech tree is quite limited. Odds are that when korean player reaches castle age, its opponent is far ahead either in army or eco. Or both. They need an early game buff
New early bonus: Outposts fire one arrow.
Trushing in dark age!!!
Yeah, really long time no see. I am quite happy to see your posts again.
Faster Blacksmith is quite brand new. But I think the percentage should be much lower.
This may lead to new form of tower rush?
I agree with you. Their infantry is mediocre at most. The only branch they can rely on is archers. Even squires is granted, their infantry will be still mediocre. So, it’s definitely ok.
Considering their main weakness is lacking early game bonus. The tech available to be granted to them for free is quite limited. I can’t think of any free early tech suitable for Portuguese. Late game tech may not help them mitigate their early game.
Korean wood discount is too lame compared to Portuguese gold discount. Portuguese bonus apply to all units. For Koreans, only Cav archer, archers, skirmishers, spearmen, ships and war wagon benefit from it. War Wagon base cost even got raised to negate the bonus. Someone has mentioned that Koreans has arguably the best onagers, this may be the reason they don’t get discount on siege. But I think it’s not a bad idea to extend to siege. Either smaller percentage or a fix number would be fine.
At most Light cav, not knight. Higher HP means they can take extra hit from pikes. This may affect the momentum greatly.
I agree with you on this idea.
I prefer to leave them alone on next patch.
I predict there will be no change due to controversy. Btw, we should be doing prediction but not suggestion. Perhaps, you may start a new topic.
thanks. To be fair, I didn’t go through the other posts before I commented.
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Gold takes a lot to run out even in 1v1, so onestly if you don’t end the game before that, you adversary deserve to win.
My suggestion intended to give the turks more power during castle age, to end the game before the gold run out.
Not all civs have arbs, however I think that more than ESkirm they could use onagers.
A lot of civs lack of land eco bonus, but not all are bad, saving 5w for archers in feudal it’s actually nice, and saving wood on a halbs and onagers combo could help them.
It could, but onestly, Bulgarians wouldn’t have faster lumberjacks, cheaper TC, or TC with extra HP or arrows and so on, and onestly krepost would work better.
A free tech would make some of their push faster with the gold discount, like an archer rush, a scout rush, a monk and siege push…
About one more hit from pikes, less from halbs.
I found a new job, I have little to none free time for AoE unfortunately 
Why? Why with 34 civs you stand a chance without gold, but with turks you deserve to lose?
So? It’s okay to not have an answer against 10 civs? And no, onager is an expensive tech, and takes a lot of time to research. Plus, takes a lot of gold, gold that turks needs. eskirms makes much more sense