Either 5F or 5G, this unit unit should be cheaper. But I prefer 5G
Or alternativ raise 5HP
And their HC would be even cheaper. Also, even them rarely use them over arbs, so I donât see any problem in lowering the gold cost a bit.
I think that we will have to wait a bit longer to see if those changes really make the difference, but it is a bit promising.
Their purpose is to be use in mid castle age and early imp to perform some lighting attack, and thatâs when gold isnât a issue, so they arenât that difficoult to train and they are able to snipe buildings.
If you really want maybe -5f could help a lot more than less gold.
A change that comes in mind is a steppe lancer buff. Theyâve needed a buff anyways in the previous patch but after the pathfinding improvements they are even more weak 11
I might consider making a post about steppe lancers
3 Likes
but thats my point, even with cheaper HC you hardly see them, so i dont think lowering to 40g is enough, but if you take it to 40, then weâll see 32g HC and that might be too muchâŠ
I donât think so, since itâs a unit that you need to mass, and you can do it only in the Imperial age, they would probably be used only when they can be used to their full potential, for example vs heavy infantry civs, or certain units like huskarls and EEW.
Considering that especially as Italians and portos you probably have a lot of xbow for the previous ages, you would probably stick with them.
This is more for all other civs that have HC but never use them.
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while i do agree with you⊠it opens up the potential for a similar to turk fast imperial, with slightly slower to get, but significantly cheaper HC to the current tactic
while i dont think it would necessarily be OP, it could lead to some or other cheese that we cant foreseeâŠ
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Turks already can perform a fast imp into HC, but this could make it a decent strategy even in maps like arabia.
Of course it needs to be tested, but 40/35g HC I donât see it as a broken change.
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as i said before, its not the 40/35 im concerned about its the 32/28⊠not sure how one would test it, except to simply run tests vs other units of equal resource, but not sure how to test how effective the fast imperial thing could be
as i said earlier, 40 already exists and civs dont use em⊠so you would need to lower the price AND do something to buff them, which would then translate into 32g buffed HC for italiansâŠ
I literally said they did
Sorry, Iâm a bit tired, I misread.
Thatâs true⊠still, it could help a bit to change the immage of the unit, and incourage people in general to try them more often.
2 Likes
I know quite a few peple that were telling me about BEs being OP for the past few months, at around mid-ELO ratings.
I personally was never bothered, but I am inclined to believe the BEs might have needed the nerf, just by the number of people I saw talking about it at my clanâs Discord.
viper thinks it was a good nerf too
2 Likes
And he also thinks neither koreans mor Portuguese needed a buff.
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he also said he loves these patches because they keep changing the meta so you see new stuff and it doesnât stagnant.
and he said he wasnât sure if they needed it (Koreans/Portuguese), he didnât say they didnât need it. he said he wasnât sure.
he finished it up by saying he thinks its fine overall.
and he said he wasnât sure if this was the change they needed or if maybe there was a better change.
so he wasnât against buffing Koreans and Portuguese, he was skeptical of the change that was implemented.
4 Likes
Youâre in the right here @DoctBaghi and if you ask me even playtesting is not requitred as we already know how Italian -20%HC are also unused and still underpowered.
Not only is this proposed change NOT broken, it is the absolute need of the hour.
Gonna Try a new set of changes:
General:
Elite upgrade of the Steppe Lancer reduced to 700 food.
Byzantines: just give them free town patrol GodâŠ
Bulgarians:
As civ bonus Siege technologies cost 40% less.
Bagains affects dismounted Konnik.
Britons:
Yeomen now grants the extra attack to town center and castles.
Celts:
Stronghold now grants its effect to town center.
Chinese:
Chu Ko Nu cost increased to 50 wood and 55 gold.
Chu Ko Nu (standard) attack reduced to 6.
Rocketry cost raised to 1000 food, 900 gold.
To compensate:
DMS ship bonus now affects petards.
Rocketry grants +2 attack to all foot archers.
Cumans:
Steppe Husbandry grants properly its effect to genitours (and maybe Kipchaks).
Kipchak training time raised to 25 seconds.
Indians:
Sultans allows the creation of Elephant Archer at the Archery Range.
Italians:
Genoese Crossbowman training time reduced to 14 seconds.
Khmer:
No longer has access to Hand cannoner.
No longer has access to Crop Rotation.
Farms now cost 80 wood.
Battle Elephant speed bonus reduced to 10%.
To compensate:
Double crossbow grants its effect to foot Archers and galleys.
Ballista elephant affected by speed bonus.
Malay:
Forced Levy affects Karambits.
Persians:
Boiling oil is back but as civ bonus and affects town center and towers.
Portuguese:
Arquebus allows the creation of Organ Guns at Siege Workshop.
Tatars:
Silk Armor now grants +1/+1 armor.
Turks:
As civ bonus get ballistics for free.
Vietnamese:
Rattan Archers affected by the HP bonus.
In the past I proposed to remove all the blacksmith armor upgrades for infantry and give them a new civ bonus: infantry benefits from cavalry armor techs
Regarding the SL I think the problem is a real role for the unit, maybe let us wait for a dedicated topic by @Szebo210âŠ
Donât touch chinese please!
Way too much but good idea.
Seriously how much do we want khmer nerfed? No nerfs needed. Go test the elephant change inatead.
No, test new karambits first.
Good idea.
Interesting.
Way too op, turks wouldnât even need to build a university.
Rattan archers are strong already.
Italians need something in the early stages
Here probably we should start to think also a way to balance them between land and water if someone does not like extra armor for archers as a civ bonus.
Sure GC TT needs a huge improvement.
Imo they need much more, especially for a trash war⊠like castles generate a gold trickle (to be tuned for a proper balance). Or, maybe champions get extra attack vs trash units (this proposal may be tuned by @MatCauthon3)
Well Iâm not sure being that much dependant on me is a good idea, since I want to try some strategies with them first (focusing on experience instead of playing) so I get a better idea of why they are unused and weak in battles and how could they be better, and then make a conclusion that also makes sence in a theorycrafting perspective. So thatâs a lot more time. I just want to make sure I give the best ideas as possible and not just instantly write any idea to comes in my mind and sounds good the first second (unfortunately I feel like many people suggest that way).
Yeah and forgot to mention that new pathfinding should also make it all different then before.
2 Likes
If Italians does not improve in win rate/ play rate in the latest patch, this buff may worth considering. For example, Italians start with 2 houses. But of course, we need to see how great the effect the buff in the latest patch is.