look at the cost investment.
camel is much cheaper.
okay, so let me ask you this then, if Elephants were so easily countered, why would people even make them?
what would the point be of having them in game?
also it should be pointed out that the Paladin Costs 60 food and 75 gold, whereas the plumed archer cost 40 wood and 40 gold. so you invested 50% more food/wood and nearly DOUBLE the gold to kill it.
to put that in perspective, the same contribution to killing an Elephant would be 180 food and nearly 140 gold. so your âcomparisonâ is a bit off.
An equal comparison would be 3 Camels for each Elephant. Which would absolutely shred them.
if the handcannonier would be a counter to battle elefants you would see a khmer player (for the first time) switch to something else like scorpions or cavalier.
it is the same when i switch from eagles to archers when my enemy does champtions. in the current version a khmer player doesnt need to fear any counter to his battle elefants than halbs
Thatâs the problem. Everyone says âelephantsâ when they mean âkhmer elephantsâ. Burmese and viets elephants are virtually useless. When was the last time you saw a burmese pocket and say âwow, thatâs op?â
and youâd never see Elephants used again, because something so expensive, is so cheaply killed.
he fears camels too.
tell me, what good options does Khmer have, beyond Battle Elephants?
Scorpions are easily countered with cavalry.
their infantry lack both the final armor upgrade and squires.
their archers lack thumbring
Cavaliers would be absolutely shredded by the same counters that BE have, and far more easily.
a frank paladin can also kill 4 plump archers so i would say that a frank paladin is a counter to plump archers or do we have to argue about that ?
your calculation is a bit weird. you say that 3 camals are equal in ressoruces to 1 battle elefant and so 3 camals would beat 1 battle elefant therefore battleelefants would get countered by camels, but 3 camals cost 165 food and 180 gold and 1 battle elefant costs 120 food and 70 gold.
it is not true that khmer have no other good unit than battle elefants. they just dont use there other option because the battle elefant has no clear counter and is not even a slow unit
plumes also arenât supposed to kill Paladins. thatâs why they have such low attack. they are anti infantry units.
no.
you said âCamels only barely kill Elephants, they donât do nearly as well as a paladin does against a plumeâ. the Paladin costs MORE then the Plume, so it MAKES SENSE That if you are investing more, you get a much more drastic return on your investment.
whereas a Camel Costs MUCH LESS then an Elephant, so the return isnât coming from Camels wrecking Elephants. its from how much less they cost.
they have cavalry. thatâs it.
there archers suck. they have no thumb ring at all.
scorpions are easily cleaned up by basic cavalry units.
Battle Elephants and Cavaliers are easily cleaned up by anything that counters the Battle Elephant.
there infantry lacks the final armor upgrade and squires.
so. tell me. what do they have? Cavalry units. thatâs it. and the best option they had just got nerfed.
Howdaw gave +2pa originally, but was nerfed because was to OP. I propose more blast radious and more trample damage to burmese elephants. I agree with buffing Chatras
Well, I think we should first test and see the last changes, in particular for koreans and portos, we have to see if the buff to their already existing bonus alone are enough. If they arenât (or if they are OP) maybe we will have to consider more and/or different buff/nerf.
For italians, the condos buff is much appricieted, but itâs far from enough, the GC still takes too much to be trained, and their standard archers too could use some minor buff (+1PA, free archer armor eccâŠ).
Bizzantine cost reduction in food for the catas upgrades is much appriecieted, and I think they are fine now.
Some people also want some buff for turks, especially to compensate a bit their weakness vs archers, still it shouldnât be someting too crazy, just some minor tweaks (like sipahi affecting light cav).
Lastly, maybe etiopians need some minor buff, maybe a small gradual increase on the free resources that they receive when aging up.
Ill remember that the next time someone runs circles around eth pikes. Or blats them with CA. âat least they upgraded themselvesâ
free halb upgrade would be nice. But as I said already⊠Its their eco thats lacking. Iâve said it 92 times already. Imo the meta is eco. All the top tier civs have great eco bonuses. Or in mongols case, an amazing UU that makes up for an eco.
Mayan, aztec, viking, frank, mongol, hun, briton, celt. Amazing ecos, and amazing units(map dependent) . Eth can make a death ball but siege, and actually most of their army is still fragile AF.
There might be worse ecos, but eth doesnât have close to the best.
Well, arenât most civs doing just fine without camels at all anyway?
Ethiopian arenât bad at all. They arenât the kind of civs that you would see in mirror matches in settings like HC3, but you canât really call a civ win if you lose with them. Regarding their eco, at least it comes early which is always handy.
Halb+SO is a really good combo since both units cover each other well, and unlike Celts they get BBC to kill enemy onagers. Also having a military bonus on archers is always good.
In the end there is always going to be a top, a bottom and a middle in between. I think making the bottom closer to the top is more important than shuffling the middle and the top. I guess it could be doable once balance changes feel stale, but I feel like there is still quite some room before it happens.
If threads titled âHelp, my eco got eaten by crazy scythe men super fastâ start popping everywhere it wonât be my fault 11
