PuP experiences: So much overtuned stuff, so poorly distributed. Please do not let it go live like this

Of course it mean that china start with -100f and -50g, because HRE start with -100g, the point is, it open more strategy like doubles scout etc, and you’re not down one villager by doing so, and it also delays chinese dock quite a bit balancing it on water or hybrid map where chinese is OP on.

Correction: they die too Easily to Crossbows

Basically if opponent spams crossbows he counters both MAA and the Landsknechts that you mix with them even though they are “light”. (Actually even pure Landsknecht actually loses to mass crossbow in staggered formation).

Opening with IO, would give china ahead most Civs too much. We Are talking about The civ that can arrive age 2 faster than most civs (only 2nd to HRE).

By 5-6 mins China can gather resource ahead most civs already. A civ that can place both 2nd landmark and 2nd TC around 5.30-5.40 mins (1350-1400 rss) do not need any eco buff early game. China can always open with 2nd scout if you really want to, losing around 24 Rss. It is always your choice.

I do not Think the starting IO would delay any water game at all. On the other hand, it is improving.

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Say that to starting prelate, then aachen.

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AS I told you before, we cannot buff the 2nd best civ (economically in the early game) by comparing it to the best eco civ, while leaving other match up suffered fighting against China. Besides, China is much more versatile and can react fastest (comparing to HRE which is one of the slowest). You do not have to be number 1 on most aspects.

Well, okay, fair enough

And there is nerf of the other thing, Palace Guard, Zhuge Nu feudal mass, Fire Lancer, Barbican Rush, even everyone complain about grens the moment s5 PUP is live. And NoB tech nerf, the cost increase i can accept it, but the rocket decrease is kinda… I prefer the old tech so we got gold cost equal of the mangonels.

Well S5 didn’t live yet so it is a subject of change, but i hope they revert the -1 rocket of the tech, and palace guard costing 25 gold, fire lancer and zhuge nu nerf is fine.

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my opinion will be subjective on the list of chinese change (as I also feel it is nerfing quite a bit)

For NoB, Actually, the gold cost for cheaper ver. of NoB is still 25 higher than Mangonel. Tho, for some Reason I prefer Mangonel, due to its higher range, and extra damage against range units. The new rocket ability (12.5% DMG) is also meh as it is not on par with increasing Mangonel attack speed (25%) that it has.

Lets c how these changes will lead china mid-late game onto.

Well, so the rocket bonus decrease from 2 to 1 is kinda too big of a nerf, NoB is slower and have slower animation, and got shorter range, well the burst damage is higher for armored damage than a mangonel, but a trade off is a trade off. Of course microing make mangonel attack speed kinda pointless when microed, compared to extra 2 rockets, but again trade off is a trade off, and chinese doesn’t have ribalds or culverin, or super strong late game trade to afford gold heavy unit like knight and siege.

Palace guard gold cost increase is also kinda… Too much, i mean… Even if the cost is increased to 30g, but they got +1/1 armor that they lack that is fair, or cost 30g and 80f if they want to nerf palace guard spam post imp. It make palace guard stronger in mid castle. It still lack 1/1 armor and the HP tech that make them strong in imperial.

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Actually NoB movement speed is faster than Mangonel. I Think this NoB VS mango highly depends on player style and enemies. I am those who don’t like to spam them and only use against range units, so mangonel is always my preference. But I am aware that NoB mass is more deadly and can Deal against melee units pretty well.

I think palace guard cost nerf is reasonable, movement speed is much more important in the higher league. Plus, the -1 armor is also compensated by having higher HP tech. The cost to 30g 90 f is interesting Tho.

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The HP tech won’t kick in in castle age, also the other nerf that is reasonable is, swapping ming and yuan bonus (not unit or building) as rn i prefer the movement speed, and always want to end with yuan, where the imperial palace is not very useful (the moment you build it, opponent must have build stone wall and fortification, so spy is kinda useless, as it only reveal the workers) and both imperial age landmark is just stronger than imperial palace

By this, by the time palace guard can chase and run like cavalry (ming dynasty) chinese’s opponent already have enough time to build fortification.

Or make PG cost 80g 40g but with full armor. Strong in castle like english knight spam, but not available post imp.