Purely for fun speculation on future civ additions for AOE2 DE

[ArshiaAghaei]

@Parthnan

I hereby propose 65 total civilizations for the long term of AOE2 by the time the last expansion arrives.
These 30 New Civs is the least number I can be satisfied with.

People are already complaining about too much civs and you want 30 more?
Come on, 5 more is the best-case scenario if most agree.

Also, while I personally would have no problem with even 100 more civs, it will confuse most of people.

@OliveCereal4714

No new content should be added until most of this stuff is fixed

Agreed, but I don’t think he wanted 30 civs right now.

@Parthnan

There is nothing to lose with more and more civs covering more and more of the world.

You’d have a hard time remembering all UUs and UTs.
Also, keeping track of which civ is what kind of civ (Infantry, Elephant, Cavalry etc)

(All this is said without thinking this can be a balanced game with 30 more civs, I’m not gonna even try and convince you about how hard is balancing the game at this very moment, let alone with 30 more civs)

[MatCauthon3]

@ArshiaAghaei

You’d have a hard time remembering all UUs and UTs.

not only that, but we already have started to overlap in trees and playstyles as is, without adding more civs to the equation. i have not hing against adding a few more civs, but 30 is unrealistic and would lead to homogenization.

@MatCauthon3

Cumans are a Huns variant (both have good paladins and cav archers, with a focus on agressive playstyle).

Tatars are just a Mongols Variant (light cavs and cav archers, good early bonus to help them get to fuedal/early castle, with solid siege bonuses).

Lithuanians are a Byzantine Variant. (good trash, defensive style, minimal eco bonus, access to lots of options, and a heavy cavalry unique unit that has some unique trait (Byzantines = trample, reduced damage taken, Lithuanians = ignore armor))

Bulgarians are a Slavs Variant. (Solid Infantry and Cavalry, lackluster Archery (other then bulgarians Cav Archers), Great Siege, and a Heavy Cavalry Unique unit). both are similar in many respects to Teutons.

[WoodsierCorn696]

@JonOli12

It does, it just depends on what civ you put into the game.
For my part, I have put quite a few mock Tech Trees up in these forums, of civs taht do things differently.

That is just what i mean: Let us first have a look at what kind of flavor we miss, so we can unique civs. @Parthnan just dropped a list of +/- 30 civs. I cant anything with such list. I cant see how those civs are uniquely played and why they dont end up as thirteen in a dozen. I am not against adding civs, but we dont need to add new civs because the number of civs will increase. They civs much have some unique flavor. I completely miss that part in this suggestion. This really seems like adding thirteen in a dozen civs to the game for no real reason at all.

So the question for Parthnan: What would be the unique game play for each civ you suggests?

[MatCauthon3]

@WoodsierCorn696

I cant anything with such list. I cant see how those civs are uniquely played and why they dont end up as thirteen in a dozen.

exactly.

@WoodsierCorn696

So the question for Parthnan: What would be the unique game play for each civ you suggests?

agreed. i want to see 30 hypothetical civs with UU, bonuses/team bonuses, and tech trees listed.
because i see no way to have 30 more civs in this game, without huge homogenization of bonuses/tech trees/play styles.

[Parthnan]

@CactusSteak2171

better of replaced with a nuclear version according to some. Sure.

Nuclear Explosion Elephantos
Nuclear Reactor Elephantos
Nuclear Submarine Elephantos (Elephants with ears replaced with ballast tanks to hide underwater and fire Nuclear missiles)

Let’s also have 2 UU’s for each new civ giving us 100+ UUs!
More Aoe2, more entertainment, and WIDER REACH!

[WoodsierCorn696]

@MatCauthon3

agreed. i want to see 30 hypothetical civs with UU, bonuses/team bonuses, and tech trees listed.

I dont think i want to see every thing in details. Just some background of the place of every civ into the game is enough. Just some lines about the general ideas of how the civs needs to be played and why that play style is unique to that civ is fine for me. I dont really want a full tech tree listed.

[Parthnan]

@WoodsierCorn696

They civs much have some unique flavor. I completely miss that part in this suggestion.

For this we have like the biggest thread ever

Purely for fun speculation on future civ additions for AOE2 DE

Ok I know these will probably not get added but I am mostly just doing this for my own amusement. It would be cool to have a new expansion with a new set of thematically uniform civs. We have had the Conquerors which introduced the Americas, Forgotten Empires, the African Empires, The South East Asian Empires, The Turkic civs in the DE edition and I am thinking what the theme of the next expansion could be. And after some contemplation I thought it would be to cool to have an expansion based aro…

I went through it in its entirity and people on the forum have come up with really ingenious ways to make these 29 listed here ALL unique civs. Now imagine there are other forums too, where people have brainstormed many ideas for us.
So it’s not me who made these 29 civs up

Of course there is work required to refine(balance) these ideas. But remember, Good things always need some digging up, and considerable effort, but that is why they are good things, for the game, to be even more of a success.
These 29 civs should be added across a few years(if not a >6-7 years) span of time obviously for maximum effect.

Individual bonuses might be similar to another
But it is the interaction and synergy between the set of bonuses that makes the civ.

Just like two Individual players of opposing teams might be similar in 90% of playstyle in a Football match,
but the teams as a set are all always unique.

And mathematically there are a gazillion different gameplay-wise unique sets of bonuses that are possible. 64 unique sets is nothing.

[MatCauthon3]

@WoodsierCorn696

@MatCauthon3

agreed. i want to see 30 hypothetical civs with UU, bonuses/team bonuses, and tech trees listed.

I dont think i want to see every thing in details. Just some background of the place of every civ into the game is enough. Just some lines about the general ideas of how the civs needs to be played and why that play style is unique to that civ is fine for me. I dont really want a full tech tree listed.

i don’t need full tech trees either, but i want to see enough to know there isn’t going to be too much overlap. so what type of civ it is (infantry, navy, cavalry, etc), a good idea of what bonuses it should have, and how do we prevent the overlap problem.

[Parthnan]

@MatCauthon3

so what type of civ it is (infantry, navy, cavalry, etc), a good idea of what bonuses it should have, and how do we prevent the overlap problem.

There are plenty of ideas here(and then remember there’s also reddit) that have no overlap
So many in number, in fact, that it is pointless for me to list here

So take some time, read, and assure yourself about those concerns, while validating the effort of those who brainstormed ideas hard for not only the love of this game, but also to add more civs to represent more groups that feel left out!

There are two stages here,

1. The first is Conceptual, where the numbers and stats ddon’t matter, what matters is the subjective things such as Design, Purpose of civ, Focus of civ, Areas of target for Bonuses, Depiction etc.
2. The second Objective stage is where we have big discussions to drop down the raw numbers for these.

Message to all: So don’t judge subjective ideas as invalid just because the originator couldn’t decide the correct number to balance the Unit/Civ. Balancing is to be done after discussion, it is the part with most effort required, and also has personal biases involved, so don’t expect any one person to be able to balance correctly.

Its simple, the one with the best and most unique ideas for a civ wins, so we only need to get it right ONCE!

Purely for fun speculation on future civ additions for AOE2 DE

Ok I know these will probably not get added but I am mostly just doing this for my own amusement. It would be cool to have a new expansion with a new set of thematically uniform civs. We have had the Conquerors which introduced the Americas, Forgotten Empires, the African Empires, The South East Asian Empires, The Turkic civs in the DE edition and I am thinking what the theme of the next expansion could be. And after some contemplation I thought it would be to cool to have an expansion based aro…

[Szaladon]

As an example, a Meso Gunpowder civ or a Meso civ with a Cav unique unit would be really interesting (Mapuche/Araucans come to mind).

The eco boni start to get scarce (as seen as in the Tatar eco bonus) but ingenious variants of already existing ones can definitely work.As an example, smaller farms might work similar to the Slav or Khmer bonus but it’s still something different. The Lithuanian work also different to the Persian one even though conceptually it’s similar (other examples Celts-Malian wood bonus).

A concept I loved for an eco bonus was also mobile drop-off sites for the Turcomans I saw in the Realms mod. There are still some admittedly wacky ideas to be found

I do think too that 65 civs is kinda excessive but I could easily imagine 5-10 more. People just need to look a bit outside of Europe for civs and there’s easily some new exciting tech tree combinations to be found

[JonOli12]

I had a Meso Cav civ concept.

Tarrasques
Naitve American Cavalry civ

Unique Unit:
-Outrider: Spear-weilding Cavalry unit that has low armour, costs only food, but has very high HP and extra damage vs Cavalry.

Unique Technologies:
-Spanish Horses: Cavalry units have +50 HP
-War Arrow: Archer and Cavalry Archer line units +1 Range + 20% Attack Speed

Civ Bonus:
-Farms built instantly
-Elite Skirmisher free
-Eagle Scout line units +1 Move Speed on Castle/+2 Move Speed on Imperial Age
-Barracks upgrades cost no Gold

Team Bonus:
-Spearman line units +2 damage vs Infantry

Production and Research:
-Barracks: No Halberdier, no Two Handed Swordsman, no Elite Eagle Warrior
-Archery Range: No Heavy Cavalry Archer, no Hand Cannonneer
-Stables: N/A
-Docks: No Fast Fire Ship, no Heavy Demolition Ship, no Cannon Galleon
-Siege Workshop: No Siege Ram, No Heavy Scorpion, no Bombard Cannon
-Castle: No Hoardings
-Monastery: No Faith, Sanctity, Block Printing, Atonement and Herbal Medicine
-Blacksmith: No Plate Barding Armour
-University: No Masonry, no Architecture, no Guard Tower, no Bombard Tower

Economy:
-No Crop Rotation, no Stone Shaft Mining

Notes:
This would be a civ that is heavily dependant on their Castle UU, and their Cavalry Archers/Arbalests, to keep presence on the battlefield. They could do very fast rushes with their Barracks units, but they would not translate well into Imperial Age, though the Archery Range + Castle units combo would be a good endgame for them.

I purposefully left them with very weak defenses, as historically the Tarrasques were almost always on the offense, and did not mount particularly harsh resistance to the Spanish, when they finally came for them.

A Tarrasques player will want to raid and make the enemy fall behind, rather than try to Age up and go wide on the lategame, where their tech tree is lacking.
Outriders would be a good cross between Camels and Hussars, and be trained up from the Castle Age. Along Trebuchets, Arbalests and Siege Onagers + the easily upgraded trash Pikemen and Eagle warriors; Tarrasques would come out of Feudal with fury, and go to Imperial on the front foot, if they manage to cripple their enemies.

This would be as civ designed more for 1v1, rather than Team games, but the Team Bonus would be welcomed by Turks, Bizantines and Japanese alike, because all of them field Spearmen line units, and Turks would probably like one of their most basic units to atleast get a boost.

[CheshireWig3203]

The Araucans:

Slinger (+anti gunpowder, mesoamerican civilization with cavalry)

Bonuses:
Recieve a 1/2/3 free Villagers when Feudal/Castle/Imperial age reached
Bloodlines, Husbandry are free
Archery Range techs are 50% cheaper

Unique Units:
Toqui
Heavy Cavalry unit, resistant to gunpowder attacks
Costs: 65F/50G Stats: 120(140)HPs, Armor: 2/1(2/3), Attack:7(11), Strong vs Gunpowder units, Weak vs Camels, Spearmen, Attack Bonus:10(12) vs Gunpowder units
Elite: 1000F/800G

Imperial Slinger: 500F/300G +1 damage, +1 range, +10 HP, +2 anti archer armor

Unique Techs:
CA UT: Kollellaullin: Toqui and Slinger training time significantly decreased 300F/300G
IMP UT: Arauco War: Units +9 armor vs gunpowder 500F/400G

Team Bonus:
Towers +2 bonus damage to Infantry

Language:
Mapudungun

Architecture style:
South American (NEW)

Wonder:
Ruka

Missing techs:
Archery range: Hand Cannoneer, Arbalesters
Barracks: Elite Eagle Warrior
Stable: No Stable
Dock: Cannon Galleon, Fast Fire Ship, Shipwright, Heavy Demolation Ship, Dry Dock
Siege: Siege Onager, Bombard Cannon
Blacksmith: Plate Mail Armor
University: Architecture, Fortified Wall, Bombard Tower
Economy: Crop Rotation
Monastery: Atonement, Fervor, Block Printing, Sanctity
Castle: Hoardings

[Szaladon]

To be honest, I don’t like the fact that the slinger suddenly becomes a generic unit but the rest seems solid concept-wise. I’d be excited to play as them.

I’ve already seen a similar eco bonus in a mod. The Dravidians in the Realms mod got 1 villager while aging up to Feudal from TC, 2 vills for reaching Castle and 2 vills for each new TC. Similar for going to Imperial.

[CheshireWig3203]

To be honest, I don’t like the fact that the slinger suddenly becomes a generic unit

The Aracuans were very skilled with slings. Slings were popular in throughout South America.

[JonOli12]

Maybe, but they were popular throughout the world too. Slingers should remain unique to Incas.

Perhaps a way to make the Araucans mnore unique, would be to disable the Spearman line, and give them a Horseslayer with a war scythe.

This could be a Barracks unit with low damage, no Melee armour, a bunch of Pierce Armour, and a big bonus at fighting Cavalry and Eagles.
like a slow and specialized Feudal Age Champion, taht is not as good as an actual Champion, but is better than a Pikeman at killing Cavalry, while being resistant to Skirmishers.

A lot more interesting than Slingers and Elite Slingers.

[HeardColt799738]

Agreed Longboats need a nerf

[MatCauthon3]

nah, im fine with Vikings and Italians on water. i want to bring up all the water civs to their level on water though.
(Malay, Koreans, Portuguese, Berbers, and Saracens)

[JonOli12]

They will never realistically be on teh same level, but we indeed need more viable options on Water.
Land maps have all kinds of civ metas with several civs being viable at the same time, and even viable counter-picks (Berbers vs Mongols, Huns or Tatars, for example), but Water maps are all dominated by 2 options.
It would be good if there was at least 5 generally great options, and 2 counter pick options.
For example: buffing Koreans or Saracens so they become a viable counter-pick to Vikings and Italians, even if they are not as powerful in a general way, as far as Water play goes.

[MatCauthon3]

And that is what i want, i don’t need 15 water civs, 5-6 seeing regular use on water maps (not hybrid maps, water maps) would be fine with me. it just gets tiring seeing Islands and knowing its going to be Vikings Vs Italians

most of them would be quite simple fixes.
give Saracens, Portuguese and Berbers Shipwright and boom, done.
the problem with Malay is they get no decent civ bonus that affects their offense. literally every bonus they have is eco in one way or another.
Koreans boost their wood bonus up to 20% and they should be another solid pick.

[JonOli12]

Saracens and Berbers should get Shipwright, but I would do Ports and Koreans differently a bit.

I would either increase the Ports Gold discount to 20%, or the ship HP bonus to +15%.

Koreans could indeed use an incraese in the Wood discount to 20%, but since tehy are also bad on Land, I would make it apply to Siege too.