should be enough, caravels can do some nasty things if used right.
Koreans are a civ i want to take baby steps with. i don’t know if they are underused because bad, or underused because unpopular.
but the listed changes were strictly for water play.
I like the idea of 20% in navy, but instead of applying it to siege (very powerful for late game) I would give them siege workshop costing 100w, more useful in castle age. This may fix them on land.
The idea of wood discount on university tech should help a lot Portos on water. I was also interested in the possibility of a gold trickle for them…
However, for Portuguese, Koreans, and Malay, a good way to make them stronger just on water would be to make their water UTs a civ bonus (maybe not starting in feudal).
Ports already have a resource trickle, in the Feitoria.
Yes exactly. I see people do not like the idea. The civ is designed to have more gold (units discount) and a res trickle from feitoria. Following this idea you may think of a gold trickle equivalent to one extra vill. Very good in early stages, weaker later. This would balance the gold discount, which becomes stronger and stronger in later stages, while it is modest in feudal.
However I see people do not appreciate that. Also I see another problem with Portuguese, they are a bit similar to Italians, but this is just my personal feeling…
Ports do indee play similarly to Italians, but Italians are just much more efficient at it.
In any case, I think it would be easier to balance Ports by adjusting their current bonii, rather than introducing a new one.
If you increase the Gold discount, you effectively achieve the same effect as a Gold trickle for the Feudal and Castle Ages, since if the purpose it to make Ports have more Gold, then the discount is both the strongest and more conservative option.
However, if the purpose is to make Ports a better Naval civ, then increasing the bonus Ship HP will be the better solution, as it increases the cost-effectiveness of the Port’s Ships, without altering their pricetag.
As for the University bonus; if it was introduces, I would rather see University Techs cost no Wood at all, which would still make them costly in Food, Stone and Gold, but would grteatly synegyze with Ports Archers and Naval play styles.
It is just my personal taste. Italians are declared as archer civ, but they do have a gunpowder bonus. Portuguese are a gunpowder civ but they do focus on archers. Removing arbalest from Portuguese and the gunpowder discount from Italians would differentiate them more but of course this would be difficult to rebalance since it is a huge nerf to the 2 weakest land civs in the game.
Regarding navy, actually Portuguese are pretty good. Italians are just more aggressive. If Portuguese will ever get some eco like the one on university discount (cheaper or wood free) they will be very competitive.
Even pushing Italians towards archers with the free archer armor proposal would help to differentiate.
However, the civs are pretty different in late game at least
The gunpowder for italians, while affecting HC too, it’s more meant for their BBC, in order to protect their archer from siege, and for their CG, so that they can compete better with viking on the late game by taking down their docks.
So removing the gunpowder discount wouldn’t affect their HC, but their arcers and navy gameplay would be nerfed a lot.
As for portos, removing arbs would simply nerf them too much, their infantry is decent, but with no bonus and lacking squires, their cavalry and siege are below average, so since gunpowder comes in so late, removing arbs would left portos defenceless untill late imp.
I would rather extend it to techs, it would be more flexible.
+5% is negletable, better buff the gold disc.
Well, either you buff it to 20% or you extend it to siege, but the first one would be more usefuel for water play, while also buffing them on land.
I don’t see why not, maybe only portos should lack it, since their idea is less ships but more tanky and with spread damage (caravels).
They have harbors though, and with super LoS I might add, it helps to scout more in dark age and in imp, the harbors mean that you will hardly lose production, while at the same time you defend your coastline, and force you opponent to tech earlier into CG.
A similar thing happend for koreans with their strong towers, in my opinions both civs are underrated on water.
Italians can tech faster than the Ports, and Vikings amass much faster.
If Ports have to get a Gold discount and no Shipwright (which would actually be OP for Ports, in the Imperial Age, where they are already strong and can actually win), then they should have tougher Ships.
The HP bonus and Carracks helps, but it is not enough. Upping the HP bonus would be a huge help, while not making Ports navy OP, or having them just compete with Italians in the “efficient upgrades” theme.
I disagree, having 5 HCs for everyone else’s 4, is one of the best HC bonii in the game.
You never use HCs, especially since Italians tend to go archers, so they are quite good vs infantry. Maybe Italians can use the HC discount vs Goths, but I agree with @DoctBaghi that the gunpowder discount is basically a bonus on BBC.
Agree, but I actually like also the university option. Gold discount increased in imperial can be really good.
You do if you are facing Goths, Aztecs, Incas, Malians or Vikings.
Stop arguing about Portuguese Navy, it’s already very strong.
Clearly not, as Vikings and Italians tend to outright delete tehm from the game in the Castle Age, sometimes in Feudal too.
All pro players say Portuguese are fine on water.
Why should it be compared to Vikings and Italians only?
Portuguese are considered a naval Civ, they are among the best navy civs in the game. Atleast in top 10 for sure among the 35 civs we have in the game. They even get a unique ship. You literally have infinite gold resources as Portuguese. You can keep training gold expensive ships such as cannon galleon, demo ships throughout the game while all other civs are struggling.
Because Vikings and Italians dominate all Water play, to the level taht there is no point in playing any other civs on Water maps.
So you want a third civ to dominate as well? And why only Portuguese? Think about the other 32 civs. Why not talk about nerfing the other two(Italians and Vikings) that you consider overpowered?
Portuguese are clearly a good water civ.
Italians and Vikings are good on pure water maps, which is different from being a top pick on all maps with water. Islands were the less played map in the map pool.
People are just asking for more water civs, so buffing Portuguese makes sense.
However, my impression is that Portuguese absolutely need an eco buff for land. This buff may improve their water game as well. University techs costing no wood is a good example
Water civs are fine but I’d give Berbers and Saracens shipwright
Also Portuguese is a good counterpick against Vikings
We should rather think on nerfing the overpowered civs than buffing everyone to meet the same level.