Resisting name calling… you linked a video showing a dude with a billion siege unguarded as an example against what i said?? Stating how if you have 10 spears surrounding 1 NOB in stand your ground that no enemy melee could touch that NOB unless the spears moves or die???
I’ll have to watch beasty stream later today to see if his opinion matured.
But on the top of rams… 250 wood to 270 wood.
Thank you giving this. So you’re going to do 360 degree angle around your NoB if its in open field? Why don’t you show the micro. If you gonna say “well just put line formation between nob and cavalry” and then what? Stand ground and wait cavalry to circle around and insta kill nob?
If you want to protect your siege in way you described then you need to choke point or have freaking 40-60 supply on top of your siege. Handful of spears won’t do anything unless opponent is blindly charging at the direction of siege.
10 spears can’t effectively surround 1 NoB and protect it from cavalry just walking to them and killing it. If you do it inside your base or between keep / outposts or something else which creates a choke point. In this scenario YES you’re absolutely right its harder to kill siege because the range difference, BUT those situations are not something that every map or game will have, while its commonly possible to think things through and leapfrog with outposts and keeps like english players are doing in 2v2 with trebs making them immortal to anything.
Now the next issue is. You’re not exactly going to run 1 single nob as your siege army. Siege army or siege based army needs quite lot space and it will almost always be spread around little bit which creates lot of openings and if you think you can zone out cavalry while microing everything else without leaving yourself to open for cavalry charge id like you to show us how to do it
It takes single leak in your situation and all your siege dies way faster than ever before.
When I still used to play chinese siege deathball (bombards + HC + something else) I generally put my handcannoneers in front of my bombards and when anything started coming towards my HC I would either move them behind the siege and let siege tank for a little bit till moving it out cycling both lines. If from example french knights tried to torch my bombards I would my HC line to slow them down and block as much as possible, but all this required LOT of units basically max pop to do and only reason why it even had a chance to work was because siege didn’t die to handful of hits.
I agree, if they want rams to be weaker and more vulnerable that is fine but they are completely not worth the price at the moment
yeh, it really does encourage late games bro. it is designers’ intention.
Does that mean that the TC was bugged and now is stronger than before?
non-English Main TC were capped at 13 additional arrows instead of 20 additional arrow for the max units garrisoned. So now that ram hp went from 700 to 420 AND taking 1+13 arrows per sec to 1+20 arrows per sec; RAMs get deleted by main TC in 21 seconds of fire.
I agree, rams need a lower price.
We already have to invest in a bunch of resources just to unlock it and now they are almost useless.
So what you are saying is that they changed it so noew it takes actual unit micro and careful positioning; not just facesmashing siege with a pile of units in front to win a game. How dare they.
Not sure exactly how it escaped your mind that I wasn’t microing them? Didn’t i literally say I microed units in front of them back and forth ? After the speed nerf it become too clunky for my taste to do. Yes positioning was more important after that.
Now what is more important is to make choke point and trying to stop cavalry insta killing them with 0 micro to siege.
Reason why that deathball was my favorite was because each individual micro required to win siege battle against opponents that were outproducing your siege with more siegeworkshops (I used only supervised clockwork) It was thrilling and fun to in each engagement keep 2-3 bombards shooting right targets and have low ones microed back. I didn’t utilize the heal as much as other ppl did.
Ppl complained that chinese bombards back then had no counter which is hilarious when now you can have trebs with no counter whats so ever. Trebs out range everything, can be placed behind stone walls, can snipe other siege (especially english ones) and even units. Try killing them springs? Too bad you lose them to static D. Bombards = useless. Culverin same thing and sacking 40-60 supply or horsemen to kill 2-3 trebs and losing all of them to static D is not efficient when the trebs get replaced faster. Do mind this is only in situations where english reaches the point and is able to make chokepoints / natural choke point of map etc like french pass etc
Trebuchet’s base attack has been halved (compensated by damage to buildings).
minute
mongol rams rush. LETS GO
Tbh id like to see garrisoned tams being faster and more powerfull again.
Archers should not be able to build rams while they can’t damage them and they should never change the cost of ram or every civ other than french and english will die instantly
do you really play this game? made my day 
and yea they should reduce the costs, one tower needs 100 wood, one single ram 300 wood + 150 for the blacksmith and tbh one single ram isnt enough if you opponent has a army too.
the funny thing is, this thread is 15days old, patch release 12.07.
We dont need to discuss anything if they dont listen to us anyways.
same thing with HRE…
Anyone remember the siege tower? I wish it was removed from the game if it’s still so useless.
if they allow to produce battering rams without siege engineering, in feudal age, a cost of 265 - 270 seems fine to me
Yeah but with less hp until you have the upgrade
I’m going to tell you the story of the battering ram in AoE4.
Technical Stress Test: In the open beta (or the famous Ding Ding of the Town Center), where many players were able to test the game, they discovered a very clear metagame and very soon, that meta was the all in of battering rams.
Many of us understood that in order for this game to be a bit more dynamic than AoE2, devs wanted to make the ability to end a game in Feudal on occasion and thus also have more strategic variety.
Especially HRE, despite its bugs (there were more civs that could do a good all in too) had an all in in the Feudal Age of men-at-arms and battering rams made by pros at the time, it was a very clear meta because the strategy was broken / OP. Why?
That is a good question, the answer is because there were various problems regarding bugs and some obvious imbalance:
In the last patch the last bug regarding the units garrisoned in the TC was resolved (with 20 units I could only shoot with 13 weapons at that time).
The main TC (Landmark) had 2400 HP.
At that time you couldn’t target units with any defensive buildings (this is very key if you put many units inside the initial TC so that enemy units don’t get close).
(Possible imbalance) The ram had 900 HP and 3 pop (+15 ranged armor, although this is less relevant). The pre-nerf ram had 700hp and 1 pop with +30 ranged armor.
Personally I thought the devs were going to fix the bugs regarding defensive buildings and garrisoned units first before touching (or not) the ram, but many players started crying and didn’t assess the situation well.
Developers Decision:
Raise the HP of the main TC to 7000 (excessive, considering that matching it with a landmark of 5000 HP was enough compared to 2400 of a secondary TC).
Nerf the ram on the 30th November 2021 patch (going down to 1 pop is fine for late game, but there are already other more advanced siege weapons in Late, it didn’t make up for anything going down from 900 to 700 hp, even giving it more armor from distance).
I was very doubtful of these changes, because they had not yet been able to fix those bugs and nerf a certain strategy without taking into account that it was a double-edged sword. Time was proving me right.
Little by little these bugs were fixed (in addition to the balance changes of cavalry bonus against the siege) and the all-in of rams in Feudal went from being broken in the open beta to being something quite circumstantial (it was used in 1 of 10 or 15 games in high level games and with Rus). That is, the strategy went from the OP to the almost unviable, so the strategic rock/paper/scissors was broken in favor of advancing to Castles or the double TC boom.
This last change to the battering ram makes it weaker against arrows (because it has less HP) and cavalry (especially the heavy cav charge and light cav attack) can destroy them a bit faster.
And this is the story of how we are forced to have to finish almost every game in Castles with some pressure in Feudal except with a great raid (AoE2 style, which loses that identity and dynamism).
My personal changes:
With this it would make there be more variety in the Early game and it would be a step to see more fun games in Feudal.
Sorry for the long text.
Thanks for the insights and summary. I’d like to add that the ram could as well stay as it is right now if the main TC was less powerfull. That way we wouldn’t see rams as the only option to end games in feudal (considering pre recent patch rams). E.g. take away the entire TC firepower that’s coming from garrisoned villagers. The TC still can shoot its own arrow plus villagers can be garrisoned but as a result players are not forced to form a circle around the TC each game anymore. Of course civs with early armoured units would benefit from this but that’s something the balance team has to cope with.