[RANT] People tell me HRE needs this, I dont think they do

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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What is weird to me is that some people say “HRE eco too strong nerf it to the ground” while others say “HRE only has eco so needs a buff”. Like… what is going on?

I believe that what HRE needs is people to understand more of some game concepts. As a perfect example, is sooooo likely that, when battles get 50+ soldiers on each side people will start only A-moving and hoping to win. Also, the usage of the eco is so… lame. People just mass knights and build some siege and that’s it. I remember watching a 3v3 Pro League Tournament match where HRE was just massing knights while Delhi, in his team, was building infantry. Delhi didn’t even use his Compound of the Defender, and by the early Castle Age the match were far from over. Delhi could’ve gone for honed blades knights, even if taking a lot of time, and HRE could’ve massed up infantry. But noooooooooooo. Me HrE Me ReLiCs Me GoLd Me KnIghTs Me CaN pAy.

The team won the match, but dude… It was by some 20 seconds time that they could destroy the opponent’s wonder. They chose a weak composition just because they were playing meta and, due to that, won by an error margin of time.

My point is: people are still transitioning almost never with army comps. This means that either you outmass your opponent with the sheer eco, or you lose. If the opponent effectively counters you, you just keep trying to outmass him harder.

There is no consistent cheese HRE can do, like tower rushing, Fast Castle Horse Archers or fishing boat rush (Delhi), and the player base spent a lot of time getting frustrated with cheese plays, and almost no time properly developing strategies, understating the game, and it’s mechanics, and so on. It’s not the playerbase’s fault, sure, specially when you try to do something and lose to mass Horse Archers yet again. But that happened.

The more the game develops, the more room will be for new strategies and other concepts becoming important and more proeminent. Give time and HRE will go back to 50% WR. The civ is fine.

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22

Seems like you don’t really understand what is important in team games. Mobility of cavalry is far more important in team games. Especially if map is open. Most TG’s are always pure cavalry some cases one player might get infantry.

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Dude. Delhi can make the very same knights as HRE, or better with Honed Blades. The map was Danube River, not Dry Arabia or High View. What is important in team games is heavily map and civ dependant. 90% of the fighting was happening between the main crossings, in the middle island. The English player, in the opponent team, massed spearmen like there were no tomorrow, to a high degree of effectiveness.

So yes, I do understand what is important in team games: to know how to play with the battlefield and tech context, which is heavily influenced by the map, by the enemy composition, the battlefield design and, among other things, the available technology tree and how the hell it can use and influence all of the aforementioned factors.

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Then it was most likely the case that HRE had way better eco.

Also in Danube HRE is supposed to spam demo ships over anything else

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Do you want me to send you the link for the match, so you can see for yourself?

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Burgrave will be nice if you can put relics on it, every relic reducing the infantry cost …

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Sure thing. PRobably tho seen it

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Beastyqt+DeMusliM+RecoN vs Erik+Kelazhur+State - AoE4 Pro League Quarterfinals - YouTube There you go.

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I really like this idea, although it might get ankward if no relics are to be found on the map. I’d prefer it to be somewhat like School of Cavalry or Council Hall. It could produce units a little bit faster OR cheaper OR improve the work rate of barracks, something like that.

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Speaking as an HRE main, I think they are in a fine spot now that spearmen are fixed. I don’t think they need buffs or anything. Some internal balancing would be fine, since pretty much every game is Aachen->Regnitz->Swabia. Hell, maybe even nerfing some stuff would be good, since having multiple HRE pickers in the same game is absolute cancer… Less HRE pickers means less people I have to share relics with!

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HRE player here, i play it 80% of the time. I think the main problem with HRE is that it’s too predictable.

When someone matches with HRE the other person would correctly guess that the HRE player would go Relics then swabia. Something like 8min Castle with a few knights then try and go imperial. Strong as it maybe if unbothered it is quite weak since your enemy could just go blind counter you with feudal aggression. Yes, HRE may go meinwork feudal aggression, at my mid level (1.2k elo) but that would not work in high elo games.

HRE needs a buff to its less used landmarks. It would not affect how strong Relic and Swabia play but it would make them more of a well rounded civ in general. I don’t mind nerfing swabia a bit because of this.

My suggestion is this:

Bulgrave palace: keep the block of 5 infantry but instead of costing x5 make it into x4. You basically get 5 free barracks and 20% discount in produced units.

Move the 20% cheaper imperial from Swabia to Elzbach Palace.

Maybe give them an improved version of Elite Army Tactics that give 25% instead of 20% hp and dage.

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32

Everything but this I agree

Leave my Swabia alone :sweat_smile:

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33

This is mostly pre patch and really not a good indicator for current HRE.

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34

Why not just add the upgrades to buff the Landsknechts in the Landmarks that aren’t used?

So then you’d have to choose between going full infantry game, or having a mix with cavalry.

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I believe the meta made HRE predictable. The civ can still work with great archers (due to marching drills), horsemen are really nice overall, right now, so they are an option, and the eco allows you to transition more easily into other stuffs.

Although Swabia is used to fast imperial, I think is not exactly the best way to use the Civ. HRE castle age is soooo powerful, specially due to the economy allowing for… almost anything. If you can sacrifice one scout or two for information, almost like a Zerg, in SC2, sacrifices zerglings and overlords, you have the eco to build up into the adequate composition to deal with whathever you opponent throws at you. This can lead to some high agression Castle Age, specially if people use some advanced positions, with trebs, to shell away the main defenses of an opponent.

I do agree that Burgrave need a little something, because I can only imagine it as a Fast Castle into agression tool, but Elzbach is just a beautiful Landmark. If you want a proper defense anywhere, of if you want to have a hard-to-break advanced position, Elzbach can just give you that. Put a relic in it, or into other keeps inside it’s influence area, get some cannons and even chinese bombards will have a hard time dealing with it.

Let me recomend a challenge: I know the AI is a bit lame, but try building wacky combinations of Landmarks, as see what you can do. Flip a coin every age up and build whichever landmark the coin decides. Try to break from the meta. Go Meinwerk with agression followed by expansion. Go Burgrave with 5 Landsknecht raiding parties. Go full turtle into 2-3-4 TCs and use relics ONLY in keeps and outposts, to bolster your defenses. Keep trying stuff, even if it is a little bit stupid in the end. A lot of interactions will reveal, and for sure you’ll have your fun.

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36

Except nothing changed if u just use today’s data, hre is still the bottom two, only difference is Abbasid have skyrocketed to top 4 and rus is now at the bottom.

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Abbasid didn’t even get buffed or changed, people are just playing them more now

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The only thing i see they need is reduce the cost of landsknecht : 30 food 90 gold (120 total ressources like MAA) instead of 60 food and 100 gold like now (160 total ressource, too expensive for playing it)

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The patch has been out for 3 days and there is a lot of testing going on at HRE to see what works and what doesn’t. Otherwise, according to current statistics, you could argue that Abbasid is now top tier and Rus is trash. If it doesn’t improve in the next few weeks, you can talk about improvements again, but now is too early.

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Winrates don’t instantly change after a patch lol, give it time.