Regarding Nomad being an entirely separate game mode that should not be inside the standard starts random script map queue. Among other complaints - petition poll

New thread(updated to fit guidelines)

Nomad: popular game mode that happens to be often inside the ranked queues of standard play, yet obviously does not belong there and would do well with its own ranked lobby system like death match.

Mega Random: a wonderful concept that would be great as a permanent addition to the standard starts queue, except it has too many flaws at the moment: possibility of being nomad, animal scouts and the possibility of starting with double town center/scout/vills/surrounding resources, etc. It’s currently a mess where it could be perfect.

Fortress: a map created for mostly if not only regicide use. When it is not regicide, it needs the castle and the extra vills removed. Or at the very least the extra vills.

Standard start: this is what the ranked standard for random map scripts normal game mode should remain based on and for anything else take it to another queue or ranked lobby system or both.
1 town center, 3 vills+civ bonuses, 1 normal scout/eagle scout, with or without walls or towers(within reason)
The rest of the map may be as random as it wishes, open, closed, hybrid, water, land, I don’t care, it must have the standard start to be considered for the basic ranked standard start random map script queue.

We do not need an entirely separate game mode in the same queue to base our elo on inaccurately.
One who practices standard starts and does not know nomad or even if they only play nomad from time to time, they will 99% of the time lose horribly to someone who actively practices nomad and who actively bans popular maps and stars nomad to increase their odds of winning when they get it to an unfair advantage.

The elo of standard play does not transfer to nomad 1:1 just as it does not transfer to death match or empire wars 1:1, I heavily suggest to separate game modes such as these from eachother. I don’t care how popular they are, they do not belong in the same queue, except perhaps in a secondary queue together as a chaotic, fun, party mode queue with many different game modes such as cba, regicide, nomad, death match, etc on top of ranked lobbies for many different game modes that would appear in the party queue.

Nomad is a game mode that, to exist, needed a random map script to be tailored for its own existence.
Unlike death match and regicide it could not be added properly with the push of a button, so it was added via tailored map scripts. In age of empires 1, nomad was properly shown as a separate mode.

@RadiatingBlade edit: Facilitate discussion instead of silencing other points of view.

@HealFortress edit: This is a petition, not a regular poll.
It remains.

+3 votes, lost due to technical difficulties.

  • Do you agree with this line of thought?: Yes

0 voters

If you disagree, feel free to heart the post below this one.

Just stop. Please. It’s over the top. Just because you can’t play these game modes doesn’t mean other people agree with you.

10 Likes

i can play such modes, but I currently cannot play them at my elo. If I personally get a nomad map, I will lose 99% of the time, why? It’s not because I don’t have a general idea of how to play it, no; it’s because my nomad elo is not consistent with my standard play elo. It is far below my standard play elo. Same with my death match or empire wars elos.

I would love to play nomad, but only in its own elo bracket.

It completely depends on people? Like many people don’t perform as well if they pick different civs or are on arabia instead of arena, etc…

3 Likes

The map could be forest nothing, and as long as it has the standard start accounted for, I would consider it well and fair game.

As for common sense wise, any map style, be it arena, arabia with its current claustrophobic cluster of hills around the town center, black forest, runestones, islands, team islands, water maps in general, land maps in general, hybrids, etc - they all have one thing in common - the standard start. How you adapt to each map is based on the surroundings that you explore, but never should you be without the standard start which forces you into chaos at the start.

1 Like

Just practice it more. Play a heap of SP games on maps you don’t feel you can play well on. Learn to improvise. Part of your problem is your super defensive and structured playstyle doesn’t work well with these kinds of maps.

3 Likes

I am well aware that I have to make adjustments in different game modes. As for standard start plays, I am more than willing to adjust per map surroundings, but while expecting standard starts, I may be forced into an entirely separate game mode that requires more, much more adjustment than would be expected from even the most mega random generation that still had the standard start in account.

If you consider Nomad a different game mode, why don`t you just ban Nomad??? There are players out there who consider water maps a different game mode. Some even consider anything but Arabia a different game mode. Seriously, if you are so afraid of losing your ELO on maps you suck at just ban the maps. If 3 bans are not enough to cover the maps you suck at - probably your ELO is where it belongs after all

3 Likes

I do, however in team games when queuing alone, you only get one ban, and often mega random and two nomads are in the queue.

Beyond that, these insta ban modes(within this standard queue, they deserve their own ranked lobbies and perhaps a solid chaotic party queue) waste bans to the point you have none, if any, left to use on maps you might actually consider playing, but would rather pass on.

All that said, I choose to play on many different types of standard start maps, I tend to not stick to one every single game. I don’t base my elo on a single map.

I don’t agree that “standard” is 1TC and 3vills + civ bonuses. For me “standard” is conquest mode, start with dark age (regicide therefore is non standard). I think there are many people that agree with me too.

4 Likes

Nomad is awesome. I can’t imagine a reason not to love the mode. :smiley: If I had a Nomad ladder to climb, it’d be my favorite thing to spam, but in the same thought, if it was all I played, I’d probably get tired of it and want some variety.

4 Likes

I think you have a point, but I’m okay either way.

I don’t play online ranked much or at all, but I remember being blind-sided by a ranked match starting as Nomad long ago. I was clearly the underdog. I only worked with 1 villager for a while because I didn’t even know or notice I had 3 villagers scattered across the map to work with. Obviously, that is just one of the Nomad hurdles/anomalies, and easy to remember for next time… but, yeah, the gameplay path to riches and military strength is a little different.

That said, I do feel Nomad is probably close enough to regular games (as opposed to Empire Wars or Death Match) to be included in regular ELO. As an observer from the sidelines, I see merit in having ELO represent a player’s well-rounded AoE skills for the ‘standard-ish’ game; evaluating one’s ability to overcome unexpected obstacles or a nuanced set of parameters. It’s a bit why I don’t personally get why a perfectly-mirrored Arabia map is desired for every game. If I played online ranked, I’d be okay w/ Nomad being included… as well as a random smattering of non-mirrored maps.

PS: In AoE2:HD, didn’t Nomad put all your villagers in one spot and then you had to spread out? If so, I far prefer that way. I don’t like that DE gives you so many views of the different areas of the map. Nomad, to me, should mean you are venturing forth into the vast, wild unknown with your civ… like, well, nomads. With DE’s way, it takes away the ‘new frontier’ exploration part out of the equation and just says, “Here are 3 spots to choose from, pick one.”

1 Like

As for regicide, if nomad can be within the standard queue, I see no reason as to why a dark age start regicide wouldn’t be within that rather loose definition.

Victory condition for regicide differs from the one of nomad

1 Like

I mean, death match with a dark age start has the same victory conditions.

And conquest is just destroying the opponent, which regicide is, except it has a possible shortcut in terms of a single vulnerable unit.

Your defintion of destroying the opponent is looser than the one I have (and in fact I don’t see the problem Fortress played in normal conquest mode anyway).

Deathmatch with dark age start is standard according to my flawed definition - I think more people would agree that standard starting resources as a standard as well. Also DM is almost never played with dark age start anyway (extremely meaningless)

Both of our arguments seem to be going in hard to follow territory, in my own personal opinion, a dark age start regular 3 vills +civ bonuses+ scout + king with or without castle (prefer without) regicide would be a very interesting standard for regicide, and in my eyes would come close to or surpass the normal standard I try to present.

I also agree that standard resources is part of the standard.

It would also be fun if we were able to choose a king or queen as our standard ruler units. Or even choose from multiple sprites(rulers) to best represent you regardless of civ and have that setting be within the settings themselves so they apply to all regicide games.

Regicide, be it with further fine tuning in the settings or not, in my mind is the definitive standard for age 2.

In regards to fortress having extra villagers, it’s like having extra food at the start except you start with more villagers instead which is worth more and speeds up the game as a whole. In my mind, it pushes the limits of the standard start a little too much.
This isn’t a negative thought towards those with civ bonuses with extra vills, those are fine.

@everyone remade the petition, some technical difficulties were had. feel free to re-sign it. 3 votes were lost due to the petition poll being ‘lost’.

@moderators can you do us a favor and recover the old petition in the main post? Thank you.

Your poll is bugged. I only see the option ‘Yes’. The option ‘No’ is missing.

1 Like

Nomad need not be a separate mode…

It is not justified…

2 Likes