Return of Rome - what I would change to make it feel "complete"

In 2021, Age of Empires: Definitive Edition received its last content update. No more improvements and bug fixes afterwards.

Since 2023, we have Return of Rome as a remake of the original AoE. But except for ports of four campaigns, and the recent introduction of Regicide mode, there has been very little new content since the mode’s launch, in stark contrast to the tons of new stuff that the base game has received ever since.

In its current state, the AoE1 part feels unfinished - again. I made a list of things I would like to see added or changed to make RoR feel “complete”. Note that this is not about adding civs or completely new units, it’s more about rounding out what we already have (or had in a previous version only).
I’d be happy if at least one of the following things was realised.

  • Port the remaining six pre-Return campaigns, namely “Yamato, Empire of the Rising Sun”, “Reign of the Hittites”, and the Rise of Rome campaigns.
  • Add a Historical Battles campaign that covers the seven civs that were never playable in a single official scenario before. Those are Assyrians, Choson, Lac Viet, Minoans, Persians, Phoenicians, and Shang. Of course, a full-fletched campaign for every civ (about 35 scenarios in total) would be better, but that’s illusionary, I fear. Seven new scenarios appear to be reasonable, with intro/outro slides, dialogues, new heroes and all.
  • Implement the upgraded forms of the Axeman, Slinger, Scout, and Camel Rider. The unfinished units appear in the dataset, so they obviously planned such upgrades. Naturally, spreading the new upgrades among the civs will require balance updates.
  • Add ranked matchmaking.
  • Replace all blurry assets with non-blurry ones.
  • Continue improving animations of the unit models. It’s obvious that this process was halted midway through. For example, the Long Swordsman is given livelier animations (albeit with a jerky idle animation), while the Legionary still has the somewhat stiff movements from AoE DE.
  • Make more assets from the base game, including Chronicles, available in RoR, if appropriate. Since the release of RoR, a lot of graphics were added to AoE2 that are unavailable in RoR without modding. Nature objects, like trees, animals, and rocks, are “timeless” and should be available in RoR anyhow.
  • In the base game, there is a History section with information on all civs and more. Nothing like that is in RoR, but the original AoE had it in the form of WinHelp file and manual. These texts could be reused for RoR, so the histories don’t have to be written from scratch (except Lac Viet). It would require new illustrations, but AoE DE and Return of Rome campaign art could be reused in many cases. Slides of a new Historical Battles campaign would also come in handy.
  • No longer use masculine grunts for the attacking female Villager, and no horse sounds for the attacking Camel Rider. Regarding the latter unit, I wouldn’t be against completely reworking its model. And the right sounds for the donkey-driven Trade Cart.
  • Give a unique skin to Queen Zenobia in place of the male Camel Rider sprite.
  • Give the female Shepherd’s sprites from Chronicles to the RoR counterpart (the base model is the same). Distinct sprites for the male variant would also be nice while we are at it.
  • Make the Mirror Tower shoot heat rays instead of ordinary arrows again. In its current state, the name “Mirror Tower” doesn’t make too much sense.
  • Fix the Discovery unit. It uses the wrong graphics and is bugged, yet this unfinished object is available in the Scenario Editor. I’d be fine with a pure eye candy object, flags popping up can be realised with triggers.
  • Add back Blind Lame Priests, Whales, tame Lions and huntable small (North African/forest) Elephants.
  • Regarding cheat units: Update the Dragon’s currently monochrome sprite (its icon shows the real thing). Give back the unique robotic sounds to Zug 209. Make Nuke Trooper and Winsett’s cars shoot actual rocket projectiles again, and give Attack Ground ability back to them.
  • Reintroduce “pow” and “jack be nimble” cheat codes. Replace the BabyPrez with something non-controversial with the same stats, e.g. a motorcyclist (Baby’s grown up) or an elephant on a tricycle shooting with its trunk. And if humans as projectiles are problematic, use only animals. There was even an event mod for the base game featuring capybara projectiles.

Things that are not a “must”, but would be nice to have, too:

  • Co-op versions of certain campaigns/scenarios. For example, the Lac Viet scenario would most certainly feature the Trung sisters, so Player 1 would take the role of Trung Trac, while Player 2 would be Trung Nhi.
  • Unique wonders. Would require 13 new buildings. The Temple of Heaven would be moved to the Scenario Editor (it was built about 2400 years after the Shang dynasty’s end).
  • More unique skins for heroes, or at least unique icons.
  • Give unique attire to the bowman of the Elephant Archer unit, which was the case before AoE DE started reusing the Composite Bowman model for said soldier. And the Armored Elephant was more distinct from the War Elephant before DE, with chains (similar to the Elite Battle Elephant’s) and an elaborate pattern on the blanket.
  • Port the embellishment objects of AoE DE that didn’t make it into Return of Rome so far (rocks, grass clumps, stone paths, etc.).
  • East Asian regional skins, especially for Bronze/Iron Age units. For the most part, the unit models were clearly made with the ancient Mediterranean world in mind. With their current sprites, Choson Legionaries and Yamato Centurions aren’t that appealing, immersion-wise. Not that Aztec Champions and Inca Arbalesters are better, but still.
  • The somewhat strange units Mercenary and Invisible Demon can be largely recreated with triggers, but why not have them in the Editor again.
  • More AoE1/RoR-themed player icons. The few we have are all event-related.
  • Implement unused/hidden/unfinished stuff from the original AoE, like the more naturalistic Discovery, the Volcano, the Traitor (fighting Artifact), and the Space Ship (new cheat code).
  • Descriptions for heroes and cheat units like in AoE DE, as I had suggested here.

Should there also be new civs (with dedicated campaigns), architecture sets, and trainable units one day - even better.

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You mean automatic matchmaking in ranked multiplayer, because it has ranked multiplayer; which can do almost everything the automatic in aoe2’s side does, if you set it up (e.g. have a map pool).

More civs to fully cover the period. Especially as some placeholders have to be used in official campaigns.

  • Gauls
  • Britons
  • Germans
  • Dacians
  • Scythians
  • Hebrews
  • Sea Peoples
  • Harapans (Indus Valley)

Also giving civs UUs (even if it’s just unique upgrades for many) and UTs would give them more flavour

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Probably my biggest complaint about RoR is the lack of original music.
That aoe OST was just chefs kiss

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^I’m not a big fan of the 1DE versions of the original music, so I’m a bit disappointed it was reused for RoE without further changes. And that the original menu music was still left out.

Also I can’t seem to find the 1DE version of this music at all:

Edit: FloosWorld directed me to it:

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Civs like that one would require a new architecture set. Unfortunately, I’m not expecting that many new assets specifically made for RoR after two years of not fixing the blurriness of many existing ones and the overall neglect of the mode.

I included multiple things in the list that could be done with relatively small effort. Porting objects from the base game would not even require new graphics to be added, and graphics of AoE DE should also be usable without problems (but non-blurry this time, please).
On the other hand, update 141935 added more than 100 new unit and building skins in total to the base game, so adding about a handful of new sprites (including Zenobia) and improvement of existing sprites (not nearly as many as the base game has) should be possible.

I corrected it, thanks.

I also mentioned that the Lac Viet would actually need a new history text. And added the idea of bringing back the hero and cheat unit descriptions of AoE DE as “nice to have”.

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When RoR was released I hoped from that point forward every AoE II DLC would have also added something to RoR, like in Mountain Royals would also added the Armenians to RoR.
But instead they let RoR die.

An AoE 1 DLC that I always wanted it was a Mesoamerica one with the Olmecs, Zapotec and Maya, but I am also very aware that would be long shot.

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That would have been amazing indeed.

But it would also have been nice if they had inserted selected objects of the post-RoR DLCs into the RoR dataset, at least. TMR hasn’t much to offer for the ancient world, but dozens of BfG assets could be added to RoR. The East Asian decorations of TTK would be useful, too, they appear in campaigns within the AoE1 timeframe, after all. The new nature assets fit any mode, of course.

All we got of those are additional cliff types and the BfG King.

Still hoping that this is not the final state of RoR, with blurry sprites and missing campaigns. It just feels wrong for a remake of the game that started it all.

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My main problem with this DLC is how it does not have all the campaigns. I wanted to play all the original AOE1 campaigns, and this DLC failed this…

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The issue is the absolute total isolation from the rest of the world, while Rome and the Han dynasty at least established contact (which would have been stronger if the Parthians hadn’t lied to the Chinese envoy about how far Rome was, they told him while he already was in Mesopotamia that Rome was still one year of travel away…). So it feels quite far in a potential list of DLCs.

Even the East Asian civs feel too remote compared to the main playground that is the Fertile Crescent + Med Sea.

They should have resized the units and buildings and make it more like AOE2 because realistically I don’t think the Vietnamese care about this game.

For some reason AOE1 remained extremely popular in Vietnam so it was an attempt to court their market with AOE2DE but it showed they made it a priority instead of trying to fill the gaps in civs that would fit the setting.

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I would already be happy by just getting the remaining AoE1 campaigns into RoR. The additional suggestions sound great, but I sadly doubt we will ever get them.

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Vietnamese PCs aren’t mostly able to play the higher end graphics of AOE2DE.

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Not surprising as my laptop struggles to run it (while my desktop is some 25kg beast that is quite overkill), but what I find weird is why they stayed to AOE1 instead of switching to AOE2 in the last quarter century.

I’d vote for this guy to take over as the head of the devs team.

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Would have loved to see the buildings sized similarly to the base game ones, even better with the possibility to spruce up AoE2 scenarios with them.
Units are all right size-wise, they are already using certain models in both RoR and base game anyway.

Speaking of Vietnam, would a full Lac Viet campaign make RoR more appealing to the playerbase? Do they care about campaigns and scenarios for AoE1? @NarrowBubbles54 might know.

Interesting detail on that matter (source, not directly stated by a dev, but by Litude who did a lot of research):

:joy: Thanks! :wink:

Well, let’s see if at least one of items of the list, fully or partially, will be realised until the end of the year.

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In retrospect it worked in Vietnam, though I have no idea if they play East Asian civs more than the rest.

I also suspect that’s the same reason why AOE4 launched with the Delhi Sultanate instead of the Byzantine Empire and the Turks.

One thing that should have been added with the 3K DLC was the mandarin orange bush! How could they have missed adding this for a Chinese focussed DLC. It was a mod by the devs themselves.

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Yes, they could even put them on the standard Age of Empires map (except Yamato)…

Anatolia: Reign of the Hittites

Italy: The Rise of Rome in west-central Italy and the Imperium Romanum more in the center

Gaul: Caesar

North Africa: Enemies of Rome

Yes, they could even make themed DLCs:

Middle East: Phoenicians (Hiram I), Assyrians (Ashurbanipal), and Persians (obviously Cyrus the Great)

East Asia: Shang (Zhou Xin), Choson (Ko Chumong/Jumong or something later, which could also be included in AoE 2, Gwanggaeto the Great), Lac Viet (the Trung sisters), and then you throw in Yamato…

For classic AoE 1 in 1999, an unofficial expansion called Conquest of the Ages was released, developed by Aztech New Media Corp. The expansion adds four new single-player campaigns, each with 8 scenarios, one for each original architecture set. The four chosen civilizations are the Hittites, the Phoenicians, the Assyrians, and the Shang. The expansion also adds 36 multiplayer scenarios. They could take it back and put it in for Return of Rome…

Yes, a general compendium is missing, not just a history section… they could do something general like the history of each civ and then update it by adding information about each map, unit, and animal…

Trajan also feels quite cooperative, one could play with Hadrian…

Yes, a general rework like in AoE 2…

Yes, for later…let it be 2 UU for each civ, taking advantage of the fact that there are relatively few of them for now…

Very funky, sounds like the Tiberian Dawn songs lol…

Yes, it’s just a matter of putting in the effort…

Yeah, right now we’re teaching that in my archaeology class, and we’re also teaching the Chavin in Peru, and I said, “Hey, they could be included in RoR alongside the Maya.”

Sure, but I don’t see them resuming RoR at some point, they’ll just focus on Chronicles with everything from 500 BC onwards up to 200 CE (since AoE 2 now starts with TTK)…

Yes, in the end it is better for you to play AoE 1DE only… since RoR does not have all the campaigns (unless you play them in the workshop like Caesar’s campaign)…

Yes, the four East Asian civs are very disconnected from the classic world and the rest of the civs. If they add India as a playable region, at least (as can happen in Chronicles) they can connect East Asia more with Europe…

Yeah, that’s really weird… Classic AoE 1 is too rough to play these days, yet it’s super popular in Vietnam…

You could still play on a 2010s PC…

Custom and tradition…just as many of us haven’t switched to AoE 4 yet, because we like the more classic Age… :man_shrugging:

Yes, it could be… I had planned to do the Pachacuti, Moctezuma, Almeida and maybe Babur campaigns to attract 2DE players to 3DE for its 20th anniversary…

Yes, to sell more in India, since it’s a very important market now…

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