Originally being +2 attack and +5 range on the tcs, I am not asking for such range out of consideration of the Lithuanians’ Hill Forts unique tech, instead I will suggest something similar -
- Town Centers can garrison +10 units
Changed to →
- Starting in Castle Age Town Centers can garrison +10 units, gains +1 range and are affected by blacksmith arrow range upgrades.
This increases the range by maximum of 3 by the end of castle age after all techs are researched and helps to counter mangonels.
The bonus brings Teutons closer to their early defensive roots while keeping them with a semblance of balance.
The difference between the Lithuanian Hill forts and Teutons tcs in the end being that liths have full attack upgrades on the tcs and Teutons have more garrison space.
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I’m not opposed to it, though I’d rather see it implemented for all civs in order to slightly nerf Hussar spam.
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And how do push teutons which is booming ? Mangonels scorpions not working anymore sarrasens xbow as well
No thanks teutons have one of the best boom and defences in the game they dont need to get overbuffed in this way.
8 Likes
rams, ranged, + combo of other units if needed/wanted.
doubling down on Mangonels is also an option combined with other units.
Teutons are fine and don’t need any buffs. I can’t wrap my head around why people fanboy this faction so much, it’s fairly boring but it’s NOT underpowered and has a place within the game in its current state already, not to mention on some maps they outright excel (Arena, Black Forest…)
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No, you are making their tcs unpushable with this change. Teutons are fine, leave them alone
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TC shouldn’t counter mangonels. The whole point of the castle age mangonel is to pressure TC.
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Lithuanian and Teuton tcs say hi, and mangonels in castle age are meant to help counter archers and the like. The fact that 2 civs happen to have tcs that help against them is perfectly fine as it doesn’t change what they’re meant for at all.
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Yeah, I personally don’t like the Lithuanian Castle Age UT, but at least it requires a Castle, so it’s acceptable, because at least a Castle is a major investment, and a Castle usually already stops mangonel pushes dead in its tracks anyway
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Depends on how close said castle is to any tcs, and at that point they’re practically hugging
just gloss over the fact that the castle is needed + 250f/250g, vs your OP idea of a free boost to an already good civ…
on top of the fact thata lot of lith players dont actually really get that UT in a lot of competitive matches, because its such an investment… again vs your FREE buff…
+1 range is free, the two arrow upgrades have a cost. I also refute the idea that it is op; it is not. The hill forts tech is cheap.
not comparable:
-One is free (teutons which you proposed) and instant to get at castle age plus with a very very strong eco bonus to boom.
-the second (lituanians) require a castle (which is very enough alone to get mangonel push rebooted) plus need to research unique tech while not getting any eco bonus, this tech is completely useless or at very least very situational.
If you want to get back a mongonel push better to just make siege yourself or simply a castle or monk with redemption or guard towers especially with teutons when they have all these option very strong. While for free this is just too strong and do no resolve the weakness of teutons which is playing against mobile unit like cavalry archer only specialising more and disbalance even more the civ which is currently only used as a counter to heavy cavalry civs likes franks and that’s very sad.
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That weakness may be addressed by removing the stable bonus, changing out or adding on top of the paladin upgrade with the crusader knight upgrade to basically have the same stats as the current teuton paladin and finally giving Teutons the initial scout cav upgrade. The negation of the +1 melee armor knights in castle age and the addition of the scout cav upgrade is enough of a trade-off to both help counter archer types and return Teutons to their defensive roots.
Teutons had the +range bonus far before Lithuanians ever decided to rip them off in the form of a unique tech.
I say returning Teutons to a semblance of their original roots would be good form towards the old devs. It would be far from op.
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The original Teutons bonus was changed, because it was broken. It was like a persian douche, except that you could not even shoot back with your own TC…
To be fair, probably they didn’t expect that someone would delete their own tc 11. Anyway I think Teutons are more than capable of defending against Mangonel pushes even without getting extra range on their TC. Teutons already save a lot of wood on their cheap farms, so dropping a defensive siege workshop should not be a problem.
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The current balance of the game requires that if you have a bad civ matchup that you are able to use mangonels to kill early. Bypasing this just makes Teutons op Vs some matchups I would think
It’s the main reason I recognize that it should start only upon reaching castle age and in a balanced format.
Teutons don’t need the Light Cav upgrade, they are already a fine civ. They specialize in melee combat and they get buffs to Champion, Halberdier, Knight-line. They also get really good defenses, Castles and Towers, on top of a really good eco bonus (farms is arguably the single thing you spend the most wood on in the game until Imp) and lastly they also get Hand Cannoneer + Bombard Cannon now. Like it or not, their specialty is using these units to win and make a slow push, build Towers and Castles everywhere, this is how the civ plays out, if you don’t like it, and want to spam Hussars, there is Turks and go play them or something.
In my opinion, aside from Teutons having an above average Paladin in Imperial Age, the fact that they get a 5 melee armor Halberdier and Hand Cannoneers is not something to take lightly. Hell, even vs archer civs, they have options in Imp still by using Siege Onager or their high range Castles which require EXCLUSIVELY Trebs to take down (it’s commonly agreed that BBC is the more versatile, ultimate siege unit between Treb and BBC).
In Castle Age, you are not playing fully generic civ, either. Vs Knight civs you get the +1 melee armor bonus, vs archer civs you still get a decent Skirmisher (in Castle age) with full upgrades except Thumb Ring, which on Skirmisher is really not that important. You also get a really good boom because in early Castle Age most civs struggle HARD for wood, while you get cheaper farms so you can get the boom going much earlier and task villagers to food sooner.
In IMP, your comp is probably Cavaliers, Siege Onagers, Skirmishers, Halberdiers, Champions. This is a decent enough comp to push most of what the enemy can throw at you.
To me it sounds like you fanboy the civ but you are unhappy about how they play.
6 Likes
I’d personally be completely fine with a simple removal of the stable bonus in return for the +3 tc range by the end of castle age. I believe the civ focus should be mainly defense, infantry, siege. Having the knight line without the current defense buffs would be fine as unit flexibility, but in all honesty I would sacrifice the whole knight line to return the civ to its roots within a balanced format.
I’ve been playing mainly Teutons for over 8 years.
@Green4uu
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Knights are a lot more versatile than not getting your TCs mangoneled though… I mean, if mangonels are what you fear, just make your own knights and mangonels?
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