So I’ve been playing a few games recently as South Africa and I’ve noticed that I struggle to send all the unit and economy upgrade cards from the home city before revolting. There is just not the time to build up enough XP before hitting the Industrial Age to send all 25 cards. I’ve found this particularly hinders the South Africa revolution because there are no military techs available from the new home city (except the wanderlust card).
This is very frustrating especially if you want to max out the stats (the best you can) of your revolutionary units. My suggestion is to introduce a new card to all revolutionary decks that allows you to send any research techs not already sent from the original nation’s home city deck. This card should cost like 1000 coin and just add unsent cards to the new nation’s deck. (no unit shipments should be available, only upgrade techs).
For example, I want these cards available to revolution nations (as long as they were already in the player’s deck and not already sent):
(these are all British cards used for this example but I hope you guys get my drift)
P.S. the French Revolution already does this concept perfectly with the Age of Napoleon card.
Let’s be honest, those of us who play revolutions want to spend as much time as possible using revolution, it doesn’t make sense that revolutions don’t have all the cards that could benefit them in the short and long term.
I understand this is done because revolutions are shared across multiple civs and the devs are afraid of breaking game balance, but I’m sure revolutions could have different decks depending on the base civ.
PS: An example is Canada, if we use France or England they have a different shipment of villagers and I’m sure they are separate decks.
Correct, each civ’s revolution decks are included in their homecity file. In your Canadian example both the French and British do in fact already have unique decks. Adding cards to one therefore does not affect the other at all. And this goes for every revolution in the game.
I am also of the opinion that the revolutions should include more staple cards, because many players tend to delay the revolt just to be able to send these cards, which reduces the fun.
A simple solution would be to include an extended deck (like the ones USA and MEX have) with each revolution, that includes some staple cards from the original civilization (the same staple cards for each revolution of the French, British, Spanish, etc.). In this way, each revolution always has the same pool of cards, and certain staple cards from the original civilization are also added (I think they should mainly be III-IV age cards).
In some cases these cards can change names after the revolution, for example the card of the Spanish “Peninsular Guerrillas”, after the revolution can be included in the extended with the name “Guerrilla Warfare”, with the same effect (Obviously staple cards that have already been sent cannot be resent after revolt).
Simply put, the devs could make all the revs have the cards they need, but for some reason the devs don’t give them the cards.
I agree, it’s boring not being able to use revolution because I need to send cards that should already be in the deck.
PS: Germany is frustrating, you are always short of shipments.
I would prefer that they give us the option to customize the decks of the revolutions, but your idea does not seem bad to me.
I would love to see not only the name change, but also the effect, for example with Peru it increases the damage of the Peruvian guard by 25% and with Argentina the damage of all cavalry is increased by 25%. It’s okay to dream, right?
I think something important to consider here is that most Revolutions are designed in part to be an all in.
I don’t think allowing you to get upgrade cards you were not willing to put in your deck is a good idea.
I could see some logic to allowing the upgrade cards you have in your deck to move over.
Otherwise I think it’s unfair to get to use a lot of the strong short-term benefit shipments, then revolt and send all the eco and upgrade shipments you didn’t even put in your deck.
I say this as someone who likes my upgrade cards. I tend to use them (maybe too much). In a lot of cases the strong momentum based plays are better (which is why a lot of pro-players’ decks don’t use many upgrades). Most Revolts are all-ins and if I survive your push without taking too much damage I should basically win.
Ok, so would you be okay with revolutions inheriting cards as long as they were in the original deck?
For example, if I add the Advanced Arsenal/Milanese Arsenal, Infantry Hitpoints, Cavalry Combat and Riding School/Liberation March cards to the original deck, would you agree to let the revolution keep them?
yeah lets give the strongest powerspikes int he game uber cards so once you take the advantage with easy 120+ military pop, your opponent can never get back into the game. Balance!
the whoel concept of a revolt is one of 2- all in, or a sidegrade to try something your civ normally cant. i know memexico upped the ante with its cheesey uber revolts, but the ability for civs with great tempo like otto spain or safe FIs like ports will mean supercharging the eco ensures that you win by clicking 1 button.
if you revolt and your opponent survives to age4 or 5, he absolutely deserves to have better eco to regain all the damage he took. that’s called good design. any eco cards like suggested should only be added on the eco revolts if at all, and are going to be an absolute nightmare to face and unfun to watch someone survive barely only to die because the other guy clicked his 1 button. i think this is fun for scenarios or pve, but flies directly in the face of core game designs and should not be implemented without heavily reducing the overall initial powerspikes
I think you’re a bit lost, no one is asking for new game-breaking cards, in any case it’s asking that revolutions to be able to use the base civ cards, and we’re discussing the best method to achieve this.
The most reasonable suggestion so far, is that revolutions can inherit cards that are in the deck of the base civ, for example, Advanced Arsenal which is a card that all revolutions usually need and use, there is no reason to prevent revolutions from inheriting it.
Also a few questions, which card would break the game if I sent it after I revolutionized? What prevents me from sending it before and why doesn’t it break the balance if I use it before?
yeah every single revolt can get vills back now correct? so after a huge pop, should you equalize, your asking for bascially no downside to revolting by alllowing refridgeration or adv arsenal or cav combat. you can also hold off revolting to send these first: this is called strategy and has existed sicne th egame began. you see, if you beeline for the revolt you dont get to upgrade your stuff OR you can use the revolt as a desperate hold off later on after youve sent cards. Some of my fondest games as france recently is mid 4 flipping on rev france after ive gotten adv arsenal and my age3 cards so suddenly im kicking very hard and specialize in trutle breaking. i still will run out of steam tho, so i have to leverage my decent eco to win fights quickly. it can also be used to remass eco if i got raided hard thx to batch SCs training.
however, given cards like 2 hacienda and the villager shipments and the very base stats being high for revolutionary units (often given free guard status) allowing ez mode buffs to them or the eco to sustain them will break every single semblance of a revolt balance. Further, it allows people to stack their decks with age4 greed and abuse the card system, having 0 downside to revolting since they keep the cards and never having to actually make a tough choice
the thing, this thread is absolutely asking for game breaking cards its just these cards are currently well balanced and not given to revolts for the reasons i explained All this does is reward one player and take away choices for the opponent, giving you more cards of high value with little downsdie for many civs. this is an idea that again, flies in the face of over 15 years of balance and game design. its just powercreeping a mechanic that is often already very strong.
if you get a massive powerspike, you do not deserve to have easy ways to crawl back in. no eco if all in military so if your opponent survuces he can chip away. if you can just boom or scale units beyond their intended power your not a timer and have ez mode op as you get to be idle and do nothing while opponent has to pray he brought the right deck or units. very, very much not how revolts should or have been.
The translator limits me to understand you, you could rework your comment in a more compressed way and with fewer game idioms.
The only thing I understand from your comment is that you are against it, because you think that the revolutions have to mean a loss in the short and long term, to which I can only respond with.
PS: The revolutions are not an All-In since AOE3DE came out, in any case, we are asking not to waste our time and to be able to use them sooner, your comment sounds like an excuse to prevent the revolutions from being used more often.
So you dont understand but try and cry, typical low repsonse.
Ive explained pretty well why giving eco cards to revolts is against the design. They’re adding more flavor to revolts not teying to break them: i can tell you’re new and not an actually knowledgeable player cause anyone from 1 year ago remembers brazil(finally being balanced via no inf tc send) peru argentina chile corsair meta. All these revolts are now still very dangerous but the trade off in loosing economy and scaling keeps them from being op. The trade off is your units dont scale with many buff cards or your eco will not scale as well: even eco revolts dont increase the civ eco to imperial or late age4 levels. Thats the trade off for a huge spike of units that can and does win games. You get an advantage but the opponent who holds will gain
Every suggestion here removes those built in brakes. Its bad design to allow you to spam revolt and keep all the good base cards. Most revolts force new cards because 1- it limits scaling and most of all 2- allows opponents clear ways to beat it.
No matter how you spin it, adding economy and scaling to revolrs removes the all in and would require heavy nerfs to the units of revolutions, killing their powerspike and unique identity or making them op as all hell. Its designed this way for a reason and if your only counter is to be nasty because you lack the game knowledge to actually understand the design, thats not the fault of devs or current design.
I think you are misinterpreting why your previous comment amuses me, I am not making fun of you, just that your comment denotes a lot of ignorance about the current revolutions and they are asking for it in this topic.
Also, your explanation is not reasonable, as I said, it sounds like an excuse to prevent people from having fun using revolutions, this change would only make revolutions able to be prepared later instead of before, it would also give base decks the possibility to do two strategies instead of one.
PS: I don’t know why you waste your time commenting on this topic when it is the developers who decide if this request is taken into account or ignored.
Yeah you got 0 actual in game knowledge if you think its “fun” to the opponent to face a 65+ pop of guard units, 2 to 3 waves of massively reduced cost super units or free units. Then only to find it cost them nothing long term. This design is also prevelant in mexico revolts and continues to be reviled by the playerbase at large, has ruined teams 1v1 and treaty meta for months post release and required nerfs for my prior reasons
Im sorry reality is theres reasons why the posted changes arent instituted. If you dont want feedback or reality make your own discord or forum. This thread’s ideas are probably a great mod for PvE or scenarios. Its only fun for the revolter abusing propsed op mechanics in a normal PvP to have less strategy needed and less thinking to beat others
I don’t think it will result in a problem, in the worst case the developers could limit which cards can be inherited, it could be limited to the theme of the revolution or any other factor, for example in the case of Chile, it could inherit anointing and all the cards that improve the cavalry, that would help to play chile and strengthen it over time.
It is extremely unlikely a card like cav combat or refrigeration or any eco card is going to make revolutions unstoppable. The power spike all in dynamic is still there. You still need a lot of minutes to rebuild your eco after the allin. If you fail to beat your opponent and your opponent fails to beat you afterwards, that’s on them. Nobody used revs when they were an allin, the devs gave them since much needed love in DE. I think they need slightly more stuff to reach perfection. Those little cards are no match for imperial age tech.
A 30% food gather speed is nothing when there’s like 10 vilies around.
Cept every single revolt can get back in in about 10 minutes
Any revolt from ports or otto has 3+ tc
Spain has hacienda2x and tc and 2 factory minimal.
And yeah chile has been used since ep patch, imperial attack guard hussar good and was featured in several tournaments. It now has water eco card, vill card. And cav combat stacked on imperiap base stat huss is massive. You think this is fine sub 12 minutes for a civ like russia or china who already struggle into this revolt is ok? Make sure spain keeps marvelous year too so they’ll soon be churning out guard1.5 huss. Not balanced.
Also ive focused on 1v1, but in teams where slinging and getting the strongest unit out ecists this would demolish the already shaky balance. Imagine spitting out fully upgraded magyar huss or hussar of death thanks to slinging.
The devs had added ways for most revolts to get back in now. I think thats ok. They shouldnt get both 120+ pop powerspikes and then while your enemy barely survives and has to spend res ans shipments rebuilding eco, massing, and trying to overtake eco while revolter goes hurrr i rebuild nothing and get villagers with better eco than you! Balance!
Theyd need to reduce the guard level ups, remove some of the amazing trickles or eco existing already, and overall soften the powerspike to add deck space for better units than any non revolter can get till podt age5, or eq of late age4 economy’s
Rev recovery is practically non existent right now. And revs can only do the 200 pop push once. It’s very difficult to recover and push again on that scale, and the non-rev player almost always wins if they survive the push. I survived age3 vs rev cheese push with 100+ pop.
Also i think you underestimate imperial age. The techs there simply outmatch everything revs can do. Only the Mexican imperial age revs can hold on to that, and even those have certain disadvantages.
I don’t think this is going to pose a balance problem.