After the new patch, what’s the reason to play as Saracens? Their only real bonus is the trade fee, the extra HP on the camels and mamelukes is nice but it’s worthly, they have a little more HP ok but you can’t train them faster, they aren’t cheaper than before and they don’t have any important attack or defense bonus.
So, they broke a “regular” civ (wich had their most potencial just in Feudal and early Castle) and for what, to complain a few who can’t deal with 4 or 5 archers?
If someone knows something about it please let me know, because as I see, they had no more reasons to change this civ.
Perhaps it’s not the fact that they became useless, it’s unfaire that other civs like Franks or Teutons have a lot of eco or attack bonuses and now Saracens has just 2 miserable bonuses.
Perhaps you’re right but in comparison with other civs like Franks or Teutons, where you have eco and attack bonuses, Saracens leaks a lot of things. (In comparison, not in a 1v1)
Saracens are in a bad state atm, also the unique unit is absolutely bad but not terrible. They should make a camel patch where camels get at least 2 pierce armor and change the unique tech of saracens which return 33% gold to something like adding pierce armor to the camels. I think Mamelukes should have 1.45 speed cause they get destroyed by thing they should counter with a bit of micro like cav archers.
The market bonus is the most deadly eco bonus can be used if you know how to use it. I reached 15xx by only picking Saracens all-in market push every game, and there is a player his name GodOftheGodless he is 2.1k elo player and picking Saracens every single game so this how the Saracens bonus is strong. 2nd thing their foot archers still have +2 attack vs buildings and it is not bad ar all. 3rd thing they have FU for their CA and their archers and they have one of the best navy and camels in the game. They have full siege units and upgrades except the heavy scorp.
Saracens really have many good choices to go with BUT the Mamelukes need buff for sure, if not the cost, at least give it +1/+1 armor
I dont mind the plate armor, I think just 2 pierce armor should do it because it gets melted by any archers, tc, castles. I think either 1 pierce armor and +0.5 speed or 2 piece armor to match the camels so you can select them both and easier to micro. .
yeah no. camels aren’t supposed to be good against archers. giving them 1 armor is something i could see (at heavy camel rider/mameluke). but giving them 2? nah.
Man, they buffed the camels in castle Age, and just take off from archers just one point of bonus against buildings. To say “Useless” it is say too much I think…
To review since people keep mis-reading the changes:
Archer bonus pre-patch was +2 in feudal (because TB was +1), +3 in castle, +4 in Imp
Post-patch, it is +2 in Feudal, +2 in Castle, +2 in Imperial so it is worse by -1 in castle age and -2 in imperial age. Also notably cavalry archers no longer get any bonus for the Saracens because the team bonus is still only foot archers.
Please say yes I respect your opinion a lot, you are very good at the game but try to play camels vs archers. Everytime I take the time to make mamelukes which is slow to train and super expansive enemy shows halbs and arhcers skirms. They melt my mamelukes. Then when i chase cav archers, they out micro mamelukes. Then when frank paladin comes, the battle is hard when they mix in skirms and paladin. Takes time to kill paladins and skirms just kill them. Giving them 2 pierce will make them more durable and finally worth making. Its been a long time I didnt make any of them.
Also, I disagree with the assertions that Mamluks are somehow bad in combat or too easily countered. They are very easy to micro and like mounted archers becomes very oppressive with good micro because they are fast + ranged. They even have very short frame delays.
However I think most people would agree that Mamluks are too expensive, so it is too hard to field them outside of long team games.
Decreasing the cost by -5f/-5g or just by -10 gold would be a good change to see how it affects their viability.
Actually microing the Mameluke is not easy as you say. The 3 range is not like the CA to micro especially the CA will have more range by the blacksmith unlike the Mameluke who only have 3 until the last min in the game. 2nd thing Mameluke is not that fast and his bad state make anythnig yes anything move can counter Mameluke. Skirms kill Mameluke, Halbs kill Mameluke, Archers kill Mameluke, Scorps kill Mameluke, CA kill Mameluke, even knights if they are close to him the Mameluke is dead. A UU that have 85 gold cost and get countered by ANYTHING move is not at good state at all. Mameluke need at least +1/+1 armor and a reduce gold cost by 10.
The problem is that the unit is hard countered by too many things :
skirms
halbs
mangudai
kipchak
huskarls
scorpions
camels
camel archers
genose crosbowman
throwing axeman
massed balista elephant
teutonic knights
kamyuks
eagle warriors
onagers
cataphracts
massed longbowman just obliterates them
any massed archers
berserkers
samurai
Wanna raid with them? GOOD luck, they take a lot of damage from TC, castles, etc… And misses a lot of shots when vills are walking.
Like genosse crossbowman melts them. They are only ok vs paladin. They loose hard to camels and they cant micro against them since they are faster. Its easy to engage mamelukes you jsut walk diagonally and never take damage.
I think that saracens can still be good. Market bonus is still strong, and archers even if they don’t destroy buildings anymore they can still breach palisade faster, and that’s all they need.
Camel buff also help toward knight civs, since it’s a hit more from a knight, or 2 hits more from xbows and CA, which is always helpful.
I respect your opinion a lot, you are very good at the game but try to play camels vs archers. Everytime I take the time to make mamelukes which is slow to train and super expansive enemy shows halbs and arhcers skirms. They melt my mamelukes. Then when i chase cav archers, they out micro mamelukes. Then when frank paladin comes, the battle is hard when they mix in skirms and paladin. Takes time to kill paladins and skirms just kill them. Giving them 2 pierce will make them more durable and finally worth making. Its been a long time I didnt make any of them.